Calling All Con Artists ... How Would You Play It?

[Sand Swinger]

For years and years, some people thought Mel Fisher was running a scam or con. He'd have people invest in has salvage operation for a share of the finds. My parents had an opportunity to invest but decided to use their money to buy another boat. So, for years and years and more years, there were those who thought he was a fraudster, running a scam, collecting money from a lot of "unsuspecting victims".

And then, he found the Atocha...

And all those investors who took a chance, were very, very, VERY happy. It's only considered a "scam" by some until the treasure is found.

 

[TruthbeTold]

For years and years, some people thought Mel Fisher was running a scam or con. He'd have people invest in has salvage operation for a share of the finds. My parents had an opportunity to invest but decided to use their money to buy another boat. So, for years and years and more years, there were those who thought he was a fraudster, running a scam, collecting money from a lot of "unsuspecting victims".

And then, he found the Atocha...

And all those investors who took a chance, were very, very, VERY happy. It's only considered a "scam" by some until the treasure is found.

Mel Fisher was going after an actual historical documented treasure.

The oak island scam has been going on for over 200 years with each new promoter claiming a different kind of treasure, fake finds, etc.

 

[Sand Swinger]

Mel Fisher was going after an actual historical documented treasure.

The oak island scam has been going on for over 200 years with each new promoter claiming a different kind of treasure, fake finds, etc.

Doesn't change the fact that there were people that called him a fraud. People that don't really know can say all kinds of things.

As far as Oak Island goes, nobody really knows exactly what is buried there, so there's a lot of different theories or ideas as to what may be buried there. There is documentation, it wasn't just that article in Reader's Digest, which I read as a kid. Ship Captains from that time wrote about Oak Island in their journals, there are carvings and symbols on rocks and markers, not just at Oak Island, but also in France and Portugal. The rocks & markers with symbols on Oak Island line up perfectly and are constructed the same way and using the same symbols that the Knights Templar used.

They've found roman coins, along with coins from other parts of the word on Oak Island. Artifacts they've found have been carbon dated to medieval times. Lead that they've found has been tested and determined that it comes from a specific area in France. Each of these may not appear on the surface to be the answer to the mystery, but combined, they all add up to paint a picture that something happened on Oak Island a long time ago.

They may find the treasure, they may not, but somebody hundreds of years ago went through incredible trouble to design such an elaborate and complicated system for hiding whatever it was that they were hiding. Personally, I feel that if it was just a chest or two of gold or other "typical" treasure, they could have probably gotten away with digging a 40 ft hole, cover it up, and nobody would know it was there, except for the depositors. It wasn't like Oak Island was a tourist destination in the 1700's, so probably not a lot of people visited that island, except for the large number of crew who lived on Oak Island for who knows how long, to dig tunnels and holes well over 100 feet deep, and to have designed water traps to make sure whatever it was that they were hiding, stayed hid.

To me, there's just too many coincidences and too much work that went into constructing the elaborate hiding place of whatever they buried. That's a tremendous amount of work to hide a chest or two. It had to be something of incredible historical value and significance. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

[TruthbeTold]

Take some time and dig thru the many oak island threads here.

Then do more research to reinforce what you saw.

You will see a pattern of changing stories, no historical facts, and many planted finds.

The only things found on oak island have been common artifacts from 200+ years of common human activity.

The tv show has proven the multitude of previous scams as well as the current scam.

The laginas do love new believers who watch the show as they continue to re-hash 12 seasons of nonsense in an attempt to stay on tv.

 

[Sand Swinger]

Take some time and dig thru the many oak island threads here.

Then do more research to reinforce what you saw.

You will see a pattern of changing stories, no historical facts, and many planted finds.

The only things found on oak island have been common artifacts from 200+ years of common human activity.

The tv show has proven the multitude of previous scams as well as the current scam.

The laginas do love new believers who watch the show as they continue to re-hash 12 seasons of nonsense in an attempt to stay on tv.

I'm not a new believer as I've been watching the show since the first episode, so I guess I'm somewhat "invested" after 12 years of watching.

I can't say for certain that there's something there, but I also can't say for certain that nothings there. I haven't been to Oak Island, I haven't been part of the hunt, so I have no definitive way of saying it's true, or it's not true. To say either way would be speculation.

I've read through some of the other threads, and it confirmed for me why I was never interested in becoming an engineer or mathematician or astronomer or surveyor, because a lot of the deciphering using math, geometry, positions or stars and so on just makes my head hurt, lol. I'm not the guy who is going to solve the mystery and figure everything out. But I do enjoy watching those with more brain matter than I try to figure it out.

When were you at Oak Island and witnessed the planting of finds?

 

[BennyV]

I'm not a new believer as I've been watching the show since the first episode, so I guess I'm somewhat "invested" after 12 years of watching.

I can't say for certain that there's something there, but I also can't say for certain that nothings there. I haven't been to Oak Island, I haven't been part of the hunt, so I have no definitive way of saying it's true, or it's not true. To say either way would be speculation.

I've read through some of the other threads, and it confirmed for me why I was never interested in becoming an engineer or mathematician or astronomer or surveyor, because a lot of the deciphering using math, geometry, positions or stars and so on just makes my head hurt, lol. I'm not the guy who is going to solve the mystery and figure everything out. But I do enjoy watching those with more brain matter than I try to figure it out.

When were you at Oak Island and witnessed the planting of finds?

Dig into the salt works story. It makes sense to me.

 

[Limitool]

Doesn't change the fact that there were people that called him a fraud. People that don't really know can say all kinds of things.

As far as Oak Island goes, nobody really knows exactly what is buried there, so there's a lot of different theories or ideas as to what may be buried there. There is documentation, it wasn't just that article in Reader's Digest, which I read as a kid. Ship Captains from that time wrote about Oak Island in their journals, there are carvings and symbols on rocks and markers, not just at Oak Island, but also in France and Portugal. The rocks & markers with symbols on Oak Island line up perfectly and are constructed the same way and using the same symbols that the Knights Templar used.

They've found roman coins, along with coins from other parts of the word on Oak Island. Artifacts they've found have been carbon dated to medieval times. Lead that they've found has been tested and determined that it comes from a specific area in France. Each of these may not appear on the surface to be the answer to the mystery, but combined, they all add up to paint a picture that something happened on Oak Island a long time ago.

They may find the treasure, they may not, but somebody hundreds of years ago went through incredible trouble to design such an elaborate and complicated system for hiding whatever it was that they were hiding. Personally, I feel that if it was just a chest or two of gold or other "typical" treasure, they could have probably gotten away with digging a 40 ft hole, cover it up, and nobody would know it was there, except for the depositors. It wasn't like Oak Island was a tourist destination in the 1700's, so probably not a lot of people visited that island, except for the large number of crew who lived on Oak Island for who knows how long, to dig tunnels and holes well over 100 feet deep, and to have designed water traps to make sure whatever it was that they were hiding, stayed hid.

To me, there's just too many coincidences and too much work that went into constructing the elaborate hiding place of whatever they buried. That's a tremendous amount of work to hide a chest or two. It had to be something of incredible historical value and significance. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

"... nobody really knows exactly what is buried there..."

How did you jump to the conclusion that "something" was/is buried there? Many people take off from this "belief" beforehand and then play into it from all kinds of different angles. But taking off from a conclusion just seems so stupid and backwards. A KNOWN shipwreck is a forgone conclusion... go find it. What is Oak Islands...?

 

[Sand Swinger]

"... nobody really knows exactly what is buried there..."

How did you jump to the conclusion that "something" was/is buried there? Many people take off from this "belief" beforehand and then play into it from all kinds of different angles. But taking off from a conclusion just seems so stupid and backwards. A KNOWN shipwreck is a forgone conclusion... go find it. What is Oak Islands...?

Common sense, business sense. Starting a massive treasure hunt, spending millions of $, involving tons of other people, 3rd party companies, scientists, archaeologists and historians without having some evidence, some conclusion to at least support the belief that there is something buried there, would be stupid and backwards IMO.

There have been countless scientists & historians over the years, from around the world, that have chimed in with specific information they're privy to, that supports the belief that there is or was something of immense importance buried at Oak Island.

Although the History channel is now contributing $ to the production of the show, in the beginning, Rick & Marti were funding the hunt out of their own pockets, and they still fund a large portion. The History channel pays for the production costs, the Lagina's pay for other necessary expenses such as the cost of drilling, ultra-sound testing, scientific analysis of metals and wood, etc. Watch the early episodes, Marti was always concerned about how much they were spending, he watched every $ like a hawk. The last few years, he hasn't shown the same concern, probably due to the History channel kicking in and taking 1/2 the load off his shoulders.

But to just pick a piece of land or island and say "let's dig" & spend millions of $, without having any historical evidence, clues or documentation to at least provide a reasonable belief that there's something there would be totally ludicrous. There may be something there, or maybe not, I don't know. But as I see it, there's 3 possible outcomes. 1. They find treasure. 2. They find evidence that there previously was treasure. 3. They find nothing and give up.

But I do know that if you're going to start a massive and expensive treasure hunt, and you'll need to line up investors, a large crew, scientists, various experts, 3rd party companies, and get the History channel to sign on and commit to spending large sums of $, you're going to need to show them something more solid than just telling them that you have a "feeling" or had a dream that there's something there.

 

[Limitool]

Common sense, business sense. Starting a massive treasure hunt, spending millions of $, involving tons of other people, 3rd party companies, scientists, archaeologists and historians without having some evidence, some conclusion to at least support the belief that there is something buried there, would be stupid and backwards IMO.

There have been countless scientists & historians over the years, from around the world, that have chimed in with specific information they're privy to, that supports the belief that there is or was something of immense importance buried at Oak Island.

Although the History channel is now contributing $ to the production of the show, in the beginning, Rick & Marti were funding the hunt out of their own pockets, and they still fund a large portion. The History channel pays for the production costs, the Lagina's pay for other necessary expenses such as the cost of drilling, ultra-sound testing, scientific analysis of metals and wood, etc. Watch the early episodes, Marti was always concerned about how much they were spending, he watched every $ like a hawk. The last few years, he hasn't shown the same concern, probably due to the History channel kicking in and taking 1/2 the load off his shoulders.

But to just pick a piece of land or island and say "let's dig" & spend millions of $, without having any historical evidence, clues or documentation to at least provide a reasonable belief that there's something there would be totally ludicrous. There may be something there, or maybe not, I don't know. But as I see it, there's 3 possible outcomes. 1. They find treasure. 2. They find evidence that there previously was treasure. 3. They find nothing and give up.

But I do know that if you're going to start a massive and expensive treasure hunt, and you'll need to line up investors, a large crew, scientists, various experts, 3rd party companies, and get the History channel to sign on and commit to spending large sums of $, you're going to need to show them something more solid than just telling them that you have a "feeling" or had a dream that there's something there.

OK, worded another way... How did they jump to the conclusion that "something" was/is buried there? Your assuming "they" came to that conclusion based on REAL EVIDENCE. What real evidence has ever been shown to back that up. I've followed the show from season #1 and can't remember seeing one logical reason to have started or continue outside of the History Channel and others making money. That's the only "common sense" and "business sense" thus far shown.

YOU STATE: "But to just pick a piece of land or island and say "let's dig" & spend millions of $, without having any historical evidence, clues or documentation to at least provide a reasonable belief that there's something there would be totally ludicrous."

Absolutely true.... Unless your making a lot of money from it.

 

[Sand Swinger]

OK, worded another way... How did they jump to the conclusion that "something" was/is buried there? Your assuming "they" came to that conclusion based on REAL EVIDENCE. What real evidence has ever been shown to back that up. I've followed the show from season #1 and can't remember seeing one logical reason to have started or continue outside of the History Channel and others making money. That's the only "common sense" and "business sense" thus far shown.

YOU STATE: "But to just pick a piece of land or island and say "let's dig" & spend millions of $, without having any historical evidence, clues or documentation to at least provide a reasonable belief that there's something there would be totally ludicrous."

Absolutely true.... Unless your making a lot of money from it.

Based on some of the biographical info I've read about this endeavor, they didn't start out making money, in fact, they were spending their money funding everything themselves. It apparently wasn't until later that the History channel started kicking in. Probably wasn't too much of a worry to the brothers as Marti sold an energy business he owned for $75M and also owns a vineyard. Rick is a retired Postal worker so not a millionaire by any means, lol. Except he's now worth $10M, so you are right, they are making bank from the show, but I don't think they were making much, if anything, in the beginning. I've been watching since the first episode and in the beginning, they didn't have anything near what they have now, I think it was Marti, Rick, Craig Tester and maybe a couple others. Now, there's tons of people working on this.

But like I said, I enjoy watching the show. If they find treasure, that would be great and really exciting. If they don't, it will be a disappointment, but it won't ruin my life, I have no skin in the game either way. But I do hope they hit it big. I am a bit jealous, I'd love to be on that island with Gary Drayton metal detecting and finding coins, jewelry and artifacts that are hundreds of years old. Some of their finds are over 1,000 years old. That would be really cool, great work if ya can find it, lol.

BTW, I like your tagline in your footer. I too am a Patriot, Air Force Vet, lover of the Constitution. I swore an oath to defend this country against enemies foreign AND domestic (recent emphasis on "domestic"). All Vets write a blank check to the Gov't with a value up to and including their life. And personally, can't speak for anyone else, but IMO, there was no expiration date on my oath, so I consider it to still be valid until I take my last breath. My Motto==> "Evil exists, therefore I carry". 2A all the way.

 

[SSR]

Hoax or not FDR sunk money into the dig because he saw evidence that Marie Antoinette’s jewels were buried there. I wonder where that came from?

Also, where is the piece of parchment and the gold chain links that were found? Are these in a private collection? Seems like they could do an analysis with all the connects that they have these days.

FDR only ever heard the circulating stories that were presented at the Great American Masonic Conferences of the last quarter of the 19th century as a young man. The events of the 1890s are even wilder than the previous ones, as that is when the Chappells became convinced they were onto a cache of Baconian documents (That's what they were chasing, as oppose to a treasure of gold and silver). Two generation of Chappells spent their lives looking for wet paper (over 30 years). Dan Blankenship's rich partner in the Triton Group was David Tobias. Unlike Dan, Tobias was also a believer in the vault of documents story. When Prometheus tells you that there has a been a 200 years old search for treasure at OI, they are full of shit. It's bit fits and starts, and many of the searchers were of the opinion there was no buried riches there.

Those old presented stories, surely crafted to appeal to Masons in detail, were exported by none other than the same Archibalds who were involved at OI in the 1840s. Why the Archibalds did that is something we can mull over. They either believed bogus details they had been given or they are part of quite a conspiracy to attract Masonic interest/money to NS. I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were targeted by Vaughn/Smith with the details they repeated. At best they were deluded. The likelihood a 90 foot hole was ever dug which contained a polished half square ashlar with 40 hieroglyphs on it is extremely unlikely. You know its faked, because there is too much precise numerical detail given in what are otherwise stories that are as imprecise as can be. The damn hole is missing. Doing the exercise of extracting all the numerical detail from these stories shows you what constraint the stories are under.

If there was actually a staged Masonic mystery there then it was executed in 1762. I strongly doubt there was. There's enough in the plan of that island for one to think he is given a treasure map. It doesn't even seem matter that treasure maps don't really exist.

 

[Carl-NC]

But to just pick a piece of land or island and say "let's dig" & spend millions of $, without having any historical evidence, clues or documentation to at least provide a reasonable belief that there's something there would be totally ludicrous.

And yet that's exactly what has happened. OI is a 200-tr-old treasure fable built purely on delusions and nothing else.

If they find treasure, that would be great and really exciting. If they don't, it will be a disappointment, but it won't ruin my life, I have no skin in the game either way.

After 11 years of disappointment, what do you think will happen in Season 12?
(a) They will find a massive treasure
(b) Same old crap

 

[Limitool]

And yet that's exactly what has happened. OI is a 200-tr-old treasure fable built purely on delusions and nothing else.


After 11 years of disappointment, what do you think will happen in Season 12?
(a) They will find a massive treasure
(b) Same old crap

"After 11 years of disappointment, what do you think will happen in Season 12?
(a) They will find a massive treasure
(b) Same old crap"

I'm going with.....

B. SAME OLD CRAP...!
How did I do?

 

[Sand Swinger]

And yet that's exactly what has happened. OI is a 200-tr-old treasure fable built purely on delusions and nothing else.


After 11 years of disappointment, what do you think will happen in Season 12?
(a) They will find a massive treasure
(b) Same old crap

Hmm, choices, choices. OK, I'll pick (c) I really don't know, lol.

I don't remember the exact number, but didn't Mel Fisher search for the Atocha for something like 14 years? Damn, my parents were offered an opportunity to invest in his search before he found the Atocha but decided to use the $ to get a new boat. I could be sitting on my yacht sipping Latte's right now if they would have used that boat money to invest, lol.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but as far as Oak Island goes, I really have no way of knowing if it's true, if it's false, if they'll find the treasure, if they won't. I hope they find treasure, but if not, it won't affect my life one bit. I just enjoy watching the show and watching Gary Drayton metal detect. We all treasure hunt/metal detect, we're all here on a metal detecting forum, so what's not to like about watching a treasure hunting show.

 

[Armchair detective]

Those old presented stories, surely crafted to appeal to Masons in detail, were exported by none other than the same Archibalds who were involved at OI in the 1840s. Why the Archibalds did that is something we can mull over. They either believed bogus details they had been given or they are part of quite a conspiracy to attract Masonic interest/money to NS. I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were targeted by Vaughn/Smith with the details they repeated. At best they were deluded. The likelihood a 90 foot hole was ever dug which contained a polished half square ashlar with 40 hieroglyphs on it is extremely unlikely. You know its faked, because there is too much precise numerical detail given in what are otherwise stories that are as imprecise as can be. The damn hole is missing.e exercise of extracting all the numerical detail from these stories shows you what constraint the stories are under.

If there was actually a staged Masonic mystery there then it was executed in 1762. I strongly doubt there was. There's enough in the plan of that island for one to think he is given a treasure map. It doesn't even seem matter that treasure maps don't really exist.

Just a moment.
Are the Archibalds not only a part of the first Onslow effort, but also part of the follow on Truro effort?
And further took this information "on the road" for guest talks (presumably recompensed for)?
Interesting If true.
Are there any other names common to the two companies?

 

[Carl-NC]

I don't remember the exact number, but didn't Mel Fisher search for the Atocha for something like 14 years?

It's already been mentioned in this thread that Fisher was looking for a known, documented treasure. Not a fairy tale. There was no question the Atocha sank, and a manifest even listed its contents. The only question was the exact location and that's what took so long. Miles and miles of ocean.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but as far as Oak Island goes, I really have no way of knowing if it's true, if it's false, if they'll find the treasure, if they won't. I hope they find treasure, but if not, it won't affect my life one bit. I just enjoy watching the show and watching Gary Drayton metal detect. We all treasure hunt/metal detect, we're all here on a metal detecting forum, so what's not to like about watching a treasure hunting show.

It's not really a treasure hunting show. It's a drama-fiction show. If they really wanted to know whether a treasure is buried there they could have done that in way less than 12 years using scientific survey methods. In 1995, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute did some survey work on OI which completely disproved the existence of flood tunnels. They only spent 2 weeks and were not allowed access to some areas. A more thorough effort could finally give this whole myth a much-deserved ending. But that's not what the OI clowns want; they couldn't milk 12 years of junk television out of a scientific approach, so they continue with all their make-believe nonsense. It makes money, and that's all that matters.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Anyone who buried treasure on Oak Island would only have to bury it five feet deep and no one would ever find it. It's ridiculous to think anyone with hand shovels would dig a hole 100 feet deep or more to protect their treasure. They certainly wouldn't be capable of digging tunnels that flood when you try to dig up their treasure. That's the real bottom line on this tall tale.

The Laginas are playing everyone. They're getting paid 100k each per episode to make a up new story every week and dig in another spot on the island. I just can't believe this show is still on the air. How can people not see that it's all just baloney? One week it's pirate treasure, next week it's Knight's Templar, next week there's a clue in England, Ireland or some other country. Please just end this show forever!

 

[Limitool]

I totally believe there are trolls who work for the History Channel or the brothers who try to defend the story by posting the most outrageous beliefs. Probably happens on other related sites who follow O.I.

Those who justify this treasure's existence sound about as stupid as the flat earth folks...!

 

[Armchair detective]

Had another question.
Is anyone sure that it was not old man Anthony Vaughn along with John Smith and Daniel McGinnis who actually discovered the pit?
The kids discovery is a charming story, but...

 

[pepperj]

. I am a bit jealous, I'd love to be on that island with Gary Drayton metal detecting and finding coins, jewelry and artifacts that are hundreds of years old.