Can anyone identify this pocket watch?

[watchthis1988]

 

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[watchthis1988]

I can't find any manufacturers markings anywhere. The serial number on the guts is 454960.

Thanks

 

[Ant]

What first struck me was something in the minute hand. And then I noticed a flower type logo (yellow wave bracket) and maybe some writing where I placed the blue tacks. If you search "Warranted US Assay Pocket Watch" you"ll find more information:

 

[trdking]

THis is a single sunk dial. Stem wind Key set 3/4 bridge Hunter case pocket watch. Missing its flip lid. THe warranted 14K indicates that it is gold clad not solid and warranted not to rub off to the cladding. The yellow wave bracket is engine turning called Damascening and is very common on early pockets.THis turning is not very elaborate so it is entry level and not highly jeweled. Judging from the plate I would say 7 - 9 jewel movement. THis movement is not signed on the bridge. THis indicates that it is an Ebauch or a generic manufacturer which would produce the movements for someone else to case and sign. There are 12 major Ebuach companies in Switzerland to this date. ETA being the largest. The dial at one time was probably signed with the seller and has since been refinished without the makers mark. If you carefully remove the hands and then gently remove the dial, the makers mark is under neath the dial. Send me the picture of the symbol and I will tell you who made it. The low serial number and style of stem wind key set puts it in the 1880's to just turn of the century.

Cheers!

 

[nhbenz]

Wait, in the little I know of pocket watches I thought that this was supposed to be a reliable mark for being solid gold? Not that it wasn't occasionally counterfeited. Was my one tidbit I thought I knew wrong?

 

[trdking]

Gold marks will be symbols with 14k 18k or decimals .585 .750
When ever you see Warranted Guaranteed (in America a number of years is posted eg warranted 10 years) It means that it is guaranteed to not rub off to the cladding metal.
This is a bit of trickery that watch case makers used to make it hard for the people to know solid gold from clad. Not so much to deceive the buyer but to confuse the buyers friends per say
when showing them his new "gold" watch. Which was an incredible status symbol at the turn of the century. They could sell more cases that looked gold and had a lower price.
In America after the turn of the century things got so confusing that the courts required them to state the number of years the warranty or guarantee was for e.g. warranted 25years thick plate on clad.

 

[tamrock]

Sounds like someone, has a little better then average horological knowledge. Sure wish I could stumble on to a 1000 dollar PP Chrono. Back in the early 90's I did come by a 1946 AP (time only) 2 tone rectangle rose & yellow 18K case mono'd J.D. The story from the old gal who consigned it was, it was given to her by Jack Dempsey long ago when she was one of the many pretty girls who went on dates with the guy. I contacted AP and they could only tell me the watch was sold to a Chicago jeweler in 48' and that jeweler at that time had been out of business around the last 40 years.. I could never come up with the prof I was hoping to get on that AP. Later on I took it in for a new main spring at the watch repair guy I used. I got a call from the watch guy a week or so later and I think my watch guy contacted this collector when I brought it in, because, I think my watch guy and this collector had a deal going to notify this collector when something interesting came in. I thought this, because the watch guy called first, to tell me, the first main spring installed was very thin and failed from the get and it may be a problem to find one good enough to hold. Then a couple days later the watch guy, called again to tell me this collector, just happened to see it on the bench and wanted to make me an offer on it. I did go ahead and made a deal with this collector and I did make a little over a grand on it.

As for this PW I've always referred to these as "Swiss Generics", so do what trdking says and you should find out more info on it. It is a nice pocket watch IMO, but not something a serious collector will pay big bucks for.

 

[trdking]

The could Get away with the 13K US Assay because this part is a true statement when placed with Warranted they are saying that the plating is US Assayed at 14k Sneeky but true.

Is it safe to assume that this makes sense because it has a low dollar movement in it? Absolutely not. Today a Timex is a pure Timex Timex movement case hands a Rolex is a Rolex the same. At the time that this watch was built It was a smorgasbord of case makers, dial makers, movement makers and even hand makers. All watches were assembled by the local watchmaker and you picked and chose your watch to your budget and requirements. Example A railroad engineer on a budget had a requirement of a movement that had a compensated balance adjust to 5 positions and 19j or higher. his dial had to be arabic numbers with stick markers for the minutes and it had to be open face. He spent his money on the fine movement (a requirement) and bought a cheap case and dial to house it in. Someone that just wanted a watch could assemble cheap cheap cheap on all three. Someone looking to impress people could buy and expensive case and dial and put a junk movement behind it. Or someone could"load it up" and buy the works.

 

[trdking]

Wait, in the little I know of pocket watches I thought that this was supposed to be a reliable mark for being solid gold? Not that it wasn't occasionally counterfeited. Was my one tidbit I thought I knew wrong?

In this watches case Warranted 14k US Assay with no years attached would indicate that is IS solid gold. Less than 5% of all watch cases were solid gold. This however is not a Guarantee so to speak as these marks are highly counterfeited. You will have to take weight into consideration and magnify the wear spots and tear spots of the broken cover to do authentication Its 5AM am I making sense or is this drivel?

 

[trdking]

Sounds like someone, has a little better then average horological knowledge. Sure wish I could stumble on to a 1000 dollar PP Chrono. Back in the early 90's I did come by a 1946 AP (time only) 2 tone rectangle rose & yellow 18K case mono'd J.D. The story from the old gal who consigned it was, it was given to her by Jack Dempsey long ago when she was one of the many pretty girls who went on dates with the guy. I contacted AP and they could only tell me the watch was sold to a Chicago jeweler in 48' and that jeweler at that time had been out of business around the last 40 years.. I could never come up with the prof I was hoping to get on that AP. Later on I took it in for a new main spring at the watch repair guy I used. I got a call from the watch guy a week or so later and I think my watch guy contacted this collector when I brought it in, because, I think my watch guy and this collector had a deal going to notify this collector when something interesting came in. I thought this, because the watch guy called first, to tell me, the first main spring installed was very thin and failed from the get and it may be a problem to find one good enough to hold. Then a couple days later the watch guy, called again to tell me this collector, just happened to see it on the bench and wanted to make me an offer on it. I did go ahead and made a deal with this collector and I did make a little over a grand on it.

As for this PW I've always referred to these as "Swiss Generics", so do what trdking says and you should find out more info on it. It is a nice pocket watch IMO, but not something a serious collector will pay big bucks for.

What worries me about the assay mark is that there is no case makers name or mark with it. It would be here and not on the missing flip. That with an ebauch movement makes me think hinky but definitely check the case.

 

[nsdq]

The face may or may not have set screw around the movement holding the dial,you will have to remove screws x2 holding movment in the case and look on the outer edge to see , also it may be pinned with tampons ...small needle like pins,, if the balance is not broke and main spring is good it may still work if cleaned an oiled , and you might find a used case for it may or may not be a hunters case ,,and fun part sizing case to get idea is to measure movement not the case , and form what i see it appears to be a size 12 or 14 but i may be wrong

 

[pepperj]

In low end pocket watches I never gave it much thought in how many were made until one day redundant parts started arriving from the Westclox Company that had closed down almost 20 prior to receiving items. I was amazed at the shear volume that I received over the months of brass parts, 45 gallon barrels full of any part that was made for a pocket watch, from the main hunter cases to the hairsprings. 10 yrs later we were still finding pieces laying around the warehouse.
Westclox in Canada

 

[trdking]

Hi NSDQ,
THis is a broken hunters case. Look at the 6 oclock and you can see the remnants of the hinge!

Cheers

 

[trdking]

In low end pocket watches I never gave it much thought in how many were made until one day redundant parts started arriving from the Westclox Company that had closed down almost 20 prior to receiving items. I was amazed at the shear volume that I received over the months of brass parts, 45 gallon barrels full of any part that was made for a pocket watch, from the main hunter cases to the hairsprings. 10 yrs later we were still finding pieces laying around the warehouse.
Westclox in Canada

Thats a ton of Parts! Too bad it wasn't a rolex factory or? You could have made millions on a haul like that

 

[pepperj]

Thats a ton of Parts! Too bad it wasn't a rolex factory or? You could have made millions on a haul like that

Just 70/30 brass, even with all the cases very few were plated, that's how cheap these watches were, well I shouldn't say that as they were brass movements and not all steel.

I just saw your Best Find, congrats on the nice upside. Gee I wish mine was worth that, gee what age, and a movement, can dictate value.

 

[sutphin]

Yeah I can identify it,its mine ,dropped long time ago no really nice find 1988.vanzutphen