Captain Cook or Captain Crook

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

http://video.ninemsn.com.au/video.a...a2b60c#::df656437-64e3-4109-8c80-ff1b60a2b60c

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,215489.0.html

 

[Salvor6]

Great story Ossy. The same thing happened in America. There is ample proof that the Vikings and maybe even the ancient Egyptians visited America hundreds of years before Colombus. But the so called scholars don't want to change history. They also don't want to lose their Columbus Day Holiday. I know another guy that found treasure, turned it in to the State and it just disappeared.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Great story Ossy. The same thing happened in America. There is ample proof that the Vikings and maybe even the ancient Egyptians visited America hundreds of years before Columbus. But the so called scholars don't want to change history. They also don't want to lose their Columbus Day Holiday. I know another guy that found treasure, turned it in to the State and it just disappeared.

So true Pete, As we say down here ( we are only mushroom's and they keep feeding us Bulls#it ) Some say that the
Egyptians were in Australia also. And Columbus ( Colon ) was a Spanish Jew.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[Vox veritas]

The official history is just the tip of ice berg of the truth.
The coin has two sides, and always try to hide the other, but ......
Cheers VV

 

[mariner]

Ossy,

An interesting story, but a bit hard on Captain Cook, don't you think. How was he to know that somebody had been there before him?

As I look out of my window now, I see Cape Foulweather, which was the first place that Cook saw and named in 1778 on the American coast. He got the name absolutely right. Here's the view from my window.

Mariner.

 

[jeff k]

Australian Aborigines made it to Australia anywhere between 6,000 and 50,000 years ago. No written records exist, so one can only speculate on when they first arrived.

The Asian people visited the northern coast regularly for hundreds of years before Europeans set foot on the continent, to collect sea-slugs (trepang), a valued delicacy in Asia.

It is believed that the Portuguese were the first to sight the Australian continent, but there are no records within Portugal itself to substantiate the claim. The source for this claim are the Dieppe Maps, which date between 1542 and 1587, and which were drawn up by a group of French cartographers using a Portuguese source. These maps name a large land mass believed to be the Australian continent as Java-la-Grande. There is some speculation that the maps, not being to scale, actually represent an exaggerated western Java, possibly even Vietnam.

Willem Jansz/Janszoon was a Dutchman who was seeking new trade routes and trade associates. He became the first recorded European to step foot on Australia's shores on the western shore of Cape York Peninsula, on 26 February 1606. However, he believed the Cape to be part of New Guinea, from whence he crossed the Arafura Sea, so he did not record Australia as being a separate, new continent.

In 1616, Dutch sea-captain Dirk Hartog sailed too far whilst trying out Henderik Brouwer's recently discovered route from the Cape of Good Hope to Batavia, via the Roaring Forties. Reaching the western coast of Australia, he landed at Cape Inscription on 25 October 1616. His is the first known record of a European visiting Western Australia's shores.

The first Englishman to visit Australia was William Dampier, in 1688.

James Cook (not yet a captain) charted the eastern coast of Australia and claimed it in the name of the British in 1770, calling it New South Wales. He charted the east coast between April and August of that year. For this reason, Cook is often wrongly credited with discovering Australia.

 

[Lucky Eddie]

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,301112.0.html

1656 were the first dutch settlers stranded here!

All records of settlement prior to Cook being systematically expunged!

Its well past time Australia's history is re - written in line more with the truth.

After the Dutch in 1656 off the Verguilde Draeke settled in West Oz - there was a further wreck with 122 survivors of the Zuyptdorp in 1712.

Excepting the Batavia survivors of 1629 who were repatriated to Holland, these two wreck survivors groups were Australias first unwitting settlers and all well before Cook.

Whats happening to our history at the hands of museum staff is criminal - it is against all of the shipwrecks acts legislation.

There will be another program about this on Sunday night I think on 7 network Sunday night!
The reason that the original finder wasn't included in the new filming effort is simple - the traditional owners would NOT approve his participation in the program if it involved re visiting the site!

The film crew and worlds pre - eminent expert in dating rock art had no option but to leave him out of it if it were to ever be publicized on TV.

Why that is, I don't know, but I have it on authority from the world expert AUROA scientist involved, with whom i do some work from time to time, in an email 2 days ago.

There's a govt cover-up alright but the World Expert scientist fro AUROA isn't part of it as was intimated in the ACA report linked above - he's the one trying to blow the whistle by having it filmed for TV.

I might as well quote him

I've seen the show, and the story is that this fellow Nick approached Channel 7 with the story. They discovered that he was unwelcome to the Traditional Owners so had no choice but to dump him, so he went to the competition, Channel 9. End of story. These channels are a lot into rivalry.

I don't know if being called the "No. 1 rock art expert in the world" is the most disparaging thing I can think of. There is no such thing as an "original finder" of rock art. Otherwise I would be the discoverer of the Dampier rock art, for instance, and a lot of other. The claims of this chap, by the way, are disputed by both Black- and Whitefellows.

A little more from the same source.

Have samples with the lab in Miami at present. Until these are processed, no show. My guess is in 3 weeks or so. Most certainly the Channel 7 program will make mincemeat of the Channel 9 show. Kerry Stokes himself went to the site.

My take on the program was that it was amateurish and cheap, and that the chap defined me as the good guy, the only one taking him serious. His beef is with 7, understandably, and the EPA, and I have to say I can understand him. He's got short shrift from the govt dept, and I was the only one recognising the importance of the site. That is the show I saw. Sounds fair enough to me. After 10 years he is entitled to a little bitterness.

All grist to the mill - lets see what the Ch 7 story presents Sunday night!

Cheers

 

[Lucky Eddie]

And Columbus ( Colon ) was a Spanish Jew.

No not at all - Columbus was Portuguese 100%!

http://www.dightonrock.com/columbus_was_100_portuguese.htm

The proof is pretty convincing IMHO.

Cheers

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

" How was he to know that someone had been there before him" Between 1762-1765 the British Admiralty Hydrographer , Alexander Dalrymple
provided Joseph banks with a copy of a map ! From the Torres and Quiros Voyage 1606.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Fernandez_de_Quiros
Alexander Dalrymple was to later credit Torres with sailing between New Guinea and Australia before the Dutch. But he left out the east coast !
The Straight was named " Torres straight "
Mariner, you may be able to help? The British Admiralty has a copy of Captain James Cook Map ! maybe we could see a copy? my Archaeologist mate
Greg Jeffrey's did try to get a copy for his research on this subject, he was laughed at by the Admiralty !
I respect James Cook very much, and I have a few books on him, but he knew were he was going.
Here is a photo from Lizard Island, Cook named the Island as it was the only animal on the Island. He was stuck behind the Reef and could not find a way out!
From the very top he noticed in the afternoon he could see a opening in the reef and used the two small Islands ( Pictured ) to plot a course out .
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Mariner, You may ask how did Dalrymple get a copy of the Torres and Quiros Voyage? He was deputy Governor of Manila in 1762.
On his return to England, he summarised all the available information about the south pacific in a 103 page book and produced a chart of the region between south America and New Holland !
Torres headed to Manila after his voyage, he would have left documents there !!
Thanks Lucky, I will be looking out for the programme.
Ossy

 

[Lucky Eddie]

paintings of ships, rock art etc phooey!

Discovery is not possession.

First off, there’s an item on Page 11 of the “West” today regarding Dutch ancestry in WA natives. This is the one they referred to in the ACA programme during the week, but this won’t have anything to do with Qld’s rock art . That’s a different subject.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/7072826/aboriginals-seek-dutch-dna-link/

Aboriginals seek Dutch DNA link
JESSICA STRUTT, The West Australian April 17, 2010, 2:35 am

Stolen Generation Aboriginal Len Ogilvie is one of a number of West Australians who has undergone DNA testing as part of a research project that has the potential to re-write Australian history.

Theories have abounded for years as to whether Dutch crew, whose ships came to grief on the treacherous reefs off WA, married or fraternised with WA Aboriginals, producing children of mixed ancestry.

Perth-based amateur historian Thomas Vanderveldt, president of the VOC Historical Society, has teamed up with Dutch scientist Dr Pieter Bol to test the genetic links between the ancestors of those who sailed on the United East Indies Company's ships and WA Aboriginals. The DNA of 80 West Australian Aboriginals has already been sent to a medical laboratory in the Netherlands for testing.

Mr Ogilvie, an elder of the Nanda people from the Murchison River area, said yesterday that his relatives had long suspected they might have Dutch ancestry.

"My mother she was as white as you and she had red hair … you don't see many red-headed Aboriginals around here," he said. The project hopes to settle speculation on whether Europeans were living in Australia long before the arrival of the British First Fleet in Sydney Cove in 1788.

Mr Ogilvie, 81, of Innaloo, said he would "feel good" if the research revealed he had Dutch ancestry.

Mr Vanderveldt said the biggest group of shipwreck survivors most likely to have made it ashore were the crew and soldiers aboard the Zuytdorp, which was lost without trace in 1712 and discovered more than 80 years later wrecked off Shark Bay.

He said early test results had confirmed there was Western European, not English, DNA in some WA Aboriginals. The next tests are critical as they should allow the researchers to pinpoint the date when that genetic link came about and whether it predated British settlement.
·For the full story tune into Sunday Night tomorrow on Channel 7 at 6.30pm.

The situation is that my research shows and proves the Dutch survivors made formal claim to possession of New Holland for the Dutch East India Co. The one for the “Zuytdorp” is made in the proper manner of using “GS” and building cairn of stones. I have not touched it, that’s got to be done in such a manner to give scientific ,legal and professional integrity. The one for the VD survivors does not use the formal “GS”. Playford smashed up the Mullaloo slab, but left enough for Rbt to Examine. The “Zuytdorp” one was done more thoroughly by Mike McCarthy. What little was left of the carving there could have been doused with car battery acid to conceal the remnant’s age. In 1974 Playford tore down the stone marker on the Z site too. Hopefully, Seven will be using him as main speaker and authority on the site – but I have the goods on him.

The Federal Court accepts the Nyoongah claim for the metro area, and I can show that despite the genocide of the first settlers of natives with European ancestry, the an ancient colony structure still existed when the British made an illegal annexation of New Holland, with ‘settlements’ – not a Swan River Colony. That came later. So As it stands the survivors from the VOC wrecks founded colonies on New Holland’s coast. These were in existence when the Brits came – the descendants of the colonists are alive today.

The colonies belonged to the Dutch East India Co. They went broke in 1799, the colonies became the Dutch East Indies and existed until 1949 when they were ceded to Indonesia. Indonesia took over Dutch East Timor, then tried to grab West Timor, with the problems of today. They then used more legal means to grab the former Papua. [ after battles with the SAS , and two bodies coming back to OZ last week]

On that basis, New Holland belongs to Indonesia.

Or does it belong to tribes with Dutch DNA in their bodies.

Or does it still belong to Holland, and although it may not be mentioned in the cessation of 1949, WA natives are citizens of the European Community, and not Indonesia. I tried it one the President of the EC, he liked it, but said they had no money to support it.

Fun huh ?

But let’s take this further.

A few days ago President Obama announced that exploration and exploitation to Mars would be open to private investors,

This is the way that Britain built up its empire, as did America, Spain and Portugal. And of course the Dutch East Indies. Full circle, back to square one.

What are colonies, what are settlements, empires, who owns, rules and governs. There are the Moon and Antarctic Treaties that so far have stopped nations grabbing them. These rules go back to 1490 at the Treaty of Tord, and followed thru right up World War Two. There must be an existing colony, with laws,rules and citizens.

Discovery is not possession.

The whole point is that two separate lots of Dutch shipwreck survivors followed thee standing orders for VOC captains to claim new lands in the name of the VOC, and the Vergulde Draeke did it with their rock inscription at Ocean reef Western Australia in 1656.

and the Zuyptdopf survivors in 1712 also did a similar "GS" ceremony with rock cairn built to claim New Holland for the Dutch VOC (Dutch East India Co).

There's a historic precedent that proves this was "standard sailing orders for VIC captains" in Tasmans claiming of the east coast of Tasmania.

source:- http://www.tasmaniatopten.com/lists/significant_events.php

Abel Tasman discovery

1642

Written records prove that Dutch explorer Abel Tasman was the first European to discover the island that would later bear his name. On 24 November 1642 Tasman, commanding two ships of the Dutch East India Company, sighted the west coast. He named his discovery Van Diemen’s Land, after his superior in Batavia. Tasman sailed south, then east, to the other side of the island and anchored off a spot we now call Blackman Bay. He found evidence of human habitation but made no contact with the Aborigines. Nevertheless, on 3 December 1642 he had a flag planted to claim formal possession of the land. He might as well not have bothered because he never returned, the Dutch made no settlement, and it would be more than 160 years before the next Europeans, the British, would set up camp in Van Dieman’s Land.

This is the SAME "GS" ceremony performed by both the survivors of the Vergulde Draeke at Ocean reef (dated rock engraving above) and also at Zuyptdorp cliffs in 1712 by the survivors of the Zuyptdorp. Curator at the WA Maritime Museum was responsible for erasing the engraving made at this site under direct orders from then WAMM board member Playford.

The SAME Playford, then board dorector fo the Wa Maritime Museum who in emails, admits his responsibility for smashing up the Vergulde Draeke engravings at Ocean Reef shortly after they were first found and reported in 1956, at the age of 300 years after being made by the survivors.

Why the big Govt cover-up of early Dutch SETTLEMENT in Australia pre Cook?

Because CLAIMING OF THE LAND & SETTLEMENT, are the requirements to owning the land - not being the first to discover it!

All record of anyone making a LEGAL claim to Australia pre cook MUST be expunged, if the vast mineral wealth of Australia's Nor West Shelf Oil & Gas were not to revert to Royal Dutch Shell ownership along with all our mineral wealth etc etc.

History comes second to our commercial needs to remain as they are, with the profits going to the maintenance of the British Empire and the foreign corporate investors who own our mineral wealth while its still in the ground.

But Ship wrecks and maritime history are important, which is why we have the various State & Federal shipwrecks legislation to protect this sort of relics etc AS LONG AS THEY DON'T REVEAL UNPLEASANT/INCONVENIENT ECONOMIC AND HISTORIC TRUTHS, about who REALLY discovered settled and claimed Australia in the Dutch VOC East India Company in 1656!

114 years before COOK - the Dutch VOC claimed New Holland via the hand of Captain Peiter Jantz(oon) of the vessel Vergulde Draeke (Golden Drake) in 1656 when stranded here after the shipwreck of his vessel off now day's coastal fishing village settlement of Seabird, some 60 miles north of the rock engravings site at now days Ocean Reef Marine in the northern suburbs of Perth.

They did it again in 1712 with the shipwreck survivors of the zuyptdorp in Western Australia at the now named zuyptdorp cliffs north of present day coastal fishing village Kalbarri.

I have posted here the only existing photo from the Western Australian News Papers of 1956 of the inscriptions intact before they were destroyed at then WA maritime Museum Board Member Playford's instruction.

I also have film footage of the 1712 engraving of Zuyptdorp, at Zuyptdorp cliffs - BEFORE it was again erased/destropyed vandalized/expunged, by Curator of the WA Maritime Museum Mike Mac MacCarthy at Board member Playfords express orders.

It should be noted this second act of vandalism - was AFTER the introduction of the WA Historic Shipwrecks act of 1974 and also after the historic signing in 1972 of the accord with Holland By Australia in the Hague for the joint protection of historic Dutch shipwrecks in Australian waters - hence a federal crime.

Why?

Why systematically expunge our nations true history?

Playford, Phillip: Carpet Of Silver: The Wreck Of The Zuytdorp 1996, University Of Western Australia Press ISBN 1-875560-85-8

Seems this guy has an agenda the rest of the worlds not aware of or if they are no ones talking!

Cheers

 

[Silver Searcher]

Cook or Crook that's distastefull to say the least, especially as Captain Cook is a local Hero to me. I live less than 5 mile from were he was born, and his wife came from the same Village as I live now, His Monument on the Eston hills is visible from my home.
He was one of the first things we learnt about in school History, and it's a sad day to me when a local Hero is regarded as a Crook

SS

 

[Lucky Eddie]

He wasn't so much a crook as a fraud!

He claimed Australia for England 200+ years after the Dutch claimed it for the VOC.

Those ancient records have been systematically expunged in order to uphold Cooks fraudulent claim.

Time for the truth to out!

Cook was an amazingly capable sailor, but he is being remembered for all the wrong reasons.

He was certainly not the first to discover Australia nor was he the first European to settle here or the first to lay claim to the land.

More correctly he was the first European to settle here WILLINGLY, as compared to the Dutch who settled here because they were shipwrecked and their orders required them to claim the land on behalf of the VOC.

Time for the true history to be recorded for our kids to learn in school.

Cheers

 

[mariner]

Lucky Eddie,

I think that it is unfair to accuse Cook of being either a crook or a fraud.

Establishing a legitimate claim to a new land is more complicated than just "discovering" it. It requires a formal Act of Possession and subsequent intent to settle or control that land, and for such a large land mass as Australia (or North America, for that matter) there is the question of how much of it a single act of possession would cover.

Cook was just fullfilling the instructions he had received from the British Admiralty, and he did a tremendous job in charting a huge area of the Pacific. It was a pity he did not live to enjoy the full benefits of his achievements.

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Lucky Eddie,

I think that it is unfair to accuse Cook of being either a crook or a fraud.

Establishing a legitimate claim to a new land is more complicated than just "discovering" it. It requires a formal Act of Possession and subsequent intent to settle or control that land, and for such a large land mass as Australia (or North America, for that matter) there is the question of how much of it a single act of possession would cover.

Cook was just fullfilling the instructions he had received from the British Admiralty, and he did a tremendous job in charting a huge area of the Pacific. It was a pity he did not live to enjoy the full benefits of his achievements.

Mariner

Gday, Mariner. I agree James Cook was fullfilling his instructions from the British Admiralty and he did a great job, BUT he knew were he was going ! Just Like Hawaii , Where unfortunately he never made it back.
I think it's about time the truth came out, there is no question that the Dutch had made it to the western Australian coast in the 1700, years before
James Cook, but the video shown is about a Aboriginal Painting of a Spanish Nao on the east coast of Australia, which I am very sure is from the 1606
Torres and Quiros voyage.
They have taken some samples for carbon dating, I can only wait and see what results come back !!
Have a look at this from the University of Sydney : Manuscript translated by G.F. Barwick 1922 held in the State Library of NSW. Originally dated 1607
and produced in 1998. Marked as: THE DISCOVERY OF AUSTRALIA .
http://setis.library.usyd.edu.au/ozlit/pdf/p00053.pdf
Quiros, clearly landed in now called, Gladstone ( Queensland ) Captain Diego de Prado, perfectly describes the animals and plants that are only seen on the Australian mainland.
To me History hunting is as rewarding as treasure hunting.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[mariner]

Ossy,

Interest information about Quiros and Torres, but I don't think there is much dispute any more about the early discovery of Australia, is there? I think that the cave painting is extremely interesting and is good evidence of that early discovery. Here on the Pacific North West there are pictographs of early sailing ships, but they contain nothing like the detail of that Australian cave painting, so it is not possible to date or identify the ships.

In his journals, Cook acknowledges that the northern coast of Australia had been explored by the Spanish, the Dutch and the Englishman Dampier before he got there, and even refers to the land as New Holland. However, the area had not been settled (except of course by the Aborigines) and after Cook mapped the east coast in some detail, he felt entitled to claim that coast for England, and eventually it became a British Possession. As I said earlier, there is more to land claims than initial discovery, and I don't think that there is any evidence that Cook pretended to be the first to have "discovered" Australia. Quite the contrary.

I have spent almost thirty years trying to prove that Francis Drake discovered British Columbia and Alaska two centuries before Cook, having published that theory in the magazine of the Royal Geographical Society in July 1981, so I understand only too well the joys and frustrations of historical research. But when it came to dividing up the Pacific North West, it was the claims by Captain Cook and the American Robert Gray that determined where the Canadian-US border was set, and the Russians had by then taken possession of the Alaska that Cook explored, mapped and claimed for Britain. Nobody accuses the Russians of fraud in doing so. It's all swings and roundabouts.

And speaking of Torres, I bet you have your fingers crossed that he recovers from this week's surgery in time for the World Cup!

Best wishes,

Mariner

 

[capt dom]

Lets face it kiddies....

The guys with the guns get to make the rules
and the guys with the biggest guns get to write the history books....

Poor old Capt Cook ended up getting his just rewards as we all do....

Nobody gets out alive...

Some get to make their mark.

There's an old saying, "If they aren't talking about you
you probably haven't done anything"


All the rest is a bunch of semantical bullcrap

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy,

Interest information about Quiros and Torres, but I don't think there is much dispute any more about the early discovery of Australia, is there? I think that the cave painting is extremely interesting and is good evidence of that early discovery. Here on the Pacific North West there are pictographs of early sailing ships, but they contain nothing like the detail of that Australian cave painting, so it is not possible to date or identify the ships.

In his journals, Cook acknowledges that the northern coast of Australia had been explored by the Spanish, the Dutch and the Englishman Dampier before he got there, and even refers to the land as New Holland. However, the area had not been settled (except of course by the Aborigines) and after Cook mapped the east coast in some detail, he felt entitled to claim that coast for England, and eventually it became a British Possession. As I said earlier, there is more to land claims than initial discovery, and I don't think that there is any evidence that Cook pretended to be the first to have "discovered" Australia. Quite the contrary.

I have spent almost thirty years trying to prove that Francis Drake discovered British Columbia and Alaska two centuries before Cook, having published that theory in the magazine of the Royal Geographical Society in July 1981, so I understand only too well the joys and frustrations of historical research. But when it came to dividing up the Pacific North West, it was the claims by Captain Cook and the American Robert Gray that determined where the Canadian-US border was set, and the Russians had by then taken possession of the Alaska that Cook explored, mapped and claimed for Britain. Nobody accuses the Russians of fraud in doing so. It's all swings and roundabouts.

And speaking of Torres, I bet you have your fingers crossed that he recovers from this week's surgery in time for the World Cup!

Best wishes,

Mariner

Thank you Mariner, words of wisdom as always
What I would like to see is recognition of this in Australian History books, so it is not forgotten !
Yes I have my fingers crossed for Torres, but we still have Villa. Looking forward to the England Vs USA game
Cheers, Ossy

 

[Vox veritas]

Well, well, well. more wood to stoke the fire.
Some 5 years ago, a person from New Zealand paid me an historical research in Portugal.
About 1974/5 an Englishman was in Lisbon, Portugal looking for information on shipwrecks (do not remember which). He contacted a Portuguese historian named Manuel, who worked with him, because he could not read paleography. The Portuguese found a document, which was a travelogue written by a Portuguese captain, I think to remember in Goa (India) and was part of a defense against an allegation of loss of ship. I do not remember very well the year, but in the first half of 1500 (maybe 1534). The Portuguese ship was diverted from the route to Goa for a storm and came around to the south AUSTRALIA. Then they saw a large island with snow-capped mountains (south of New Zealand) and the ship sank north of North Island.
This information was given by the English to the person who hired me to find the document, but the English could not remember which was the archive. Just remember that there were large windows in the research room. I know the archives of Lisbon and the description corresponded to the National LIBRARY, which actually has large windows and has a section of ancient manuscripts. I tried desperately to find this document, but was looking for a needle in a haystack, also because I was only a short time. True or false? Time will tell. In Lisbon there are about 7 archives to look for ancient manuscripts !!!