Clash of Water Logged 5 point Antler and Rodents?

[PetesPockets55]

I was in the Nashville area (Lebanon) over the weekend and got a chance to walk a mostly dry creek. I came across two items that got my attention and brought them home so I could ask you guys what your thoughts are. I'll post the other on another thread.

Here is the full antler. The base looks normal like it fell out on it's own and wasn't cut.

View attachment 1942011

I noticed the missing prongs and tip and when I looked closer I could see cut marks on most of the missing ones. Without a magnifier or loupe I couldn't tell what caused them but in my excitement thought they were cut off. I assumed it was probably modern cuts. I don't hunt and never had an occasion to use antlers for anything so I couldn't venture a guess as to why someone would cut them off.

A relative thought they were used to call bucks by hitting two together to simulate bucks battling until I told him they weren't broken but cut. He thinks they were damaged by rodents which kind of makes sense except part of the missing doesn't have chew marks on them.

Here's the end with no visible marks.
View attachment 1942012

The next point with some cuts.
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Another point.
View attachment 1942014

Here is the one closest to the base with lots of "cut" marks around the base.
View attachment 1942015
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(I don't really get to look outside of Florida so forgive my ignorance. )
Thanks for any insight and assistance on this one. It's probably rodents getting their needed minerals but I just wanted to confirm.

BTW- What would the points off a rack be used for, either back then or in modern times?

ps.Here's a link the the other thread about the tapered rock.
PP55

 

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[Tdog]

I'd say that antler isn't very old as I've found many that were eaten up most all the way. I think all the damage to it is via rodent gnawing. Antler tines were and are used as pressure flakers in the knapping process. They were also used as arrow and spear tips.

 

[Buckleberry]

Looks like rodents to me.

 

[Garscale]

Squirrel damage. 100% on this one

 

[PetesPockets55]

Rodents it is. Thanks again for the clarification.
The couple of tines with few or no ridge/gnaw marks kind of threw me. Guess they may have broken off after being weakened by the varmints.

BTW- How did NA remove the tines for use as a tool or point? Sawing with a stone blade (or steel blade in more "modern" times)?

 

[outlaws15]

When out searching brought home a turtle shell top and the other day a bottom.
We watch the squirrels chew on them and they took off with the bottom piece.

 

[Tdog]

How did NA remove the tines for use as a tool or point? Sawing with a stone blade (or steel blade in more "modern" times)?

Not certain. Maybe broke them off and then grinded them against rock to further refine (tool). Points I've seen were hollow on the base so they had to be reamed out--possibly with a stone drill.

 

[PetesPockets55]

Not certain. Maybe broke them off and then grinded them against rock to further refine (tool). Points I've seen were hollow on the base so they had to be reamed out--possibly with a stone drill.

Thanks again.
(I love this place. Always willing to shed some light.)

 

[crashbandicoot]

The squirrels will eat them up in a short time,mice too.Another use for the antlers is buttons,saw off thin slices and drill holes in them for sewing.I don,t know if Native Americans did this,I don,t think they had saws did they?But later American settlers made buttons this way,don,t know about dates when this may have begun.

 

[H.P.]

Someone cut it with a steel blade ..Bottom left, broad knife strokes, not rodents..Doesn’t look like flint marks. Maybe historic period i don’t know if it’s old or not can’t tell from pics.

 

[PetesPockets55]

Someone cut it with a steel blade ..Bottom left, broad knife strokes, not rodents..Doesn’t look like flint marks. Maybe historic period i don’t know if it’s old or not can’t tell from pics.

Thanks HP that's what I was wondering at first but in that image wouldn't the saw marks all be parallel if cut with a blade? A rodent would shift around while gnawing and the marks would be kind of random as it moved?

 

[H.P.]

Not a saw..A steel knife.. I have antler handles cut with flint blades and antler and bone that’s been chewed by rodents..they don’t look anything like yours.

 

[PetesPockets55]

Not a saw..A steel knife.. I have antler handles cut with flint blades and antler and bone that’s been chewed by rodents..they don’t look anything like yours.

Well thank you for this info. Guess I'll hang onto it then.

Any chance you can add an image of the rodent chewed one? (Not questioning your assessment but wanting to learn the difference!)

 

[H.P.]

After more reasearch and consideration I have come to the conclusion that my chew marks were from very small rodents and very different from yours..I checked out larger rodent chews ( pics) I believe yours was chewed by larger rodents..And so I learned something new, thanks for posting

 

[PetesPockets55]

After more reasearch and consideration I have come to the conclusion that my chew marks were from very small rodents and very different from yours..I checked out larger rodent chews ( pics) I believe yours was chewed by larger rodents..And so I learned something new, thanks for posting
View attachment 1942200View attachment 1942201View attachment 1942200View attachment 1942202

Thanks for the update HP. And thanks for the images.
I'll still hang onto it for reference.

 

[Tdog]

Check out the 1st pic in post #185 in the following link to see whitetail antler artifacts.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-indian-artifacts/656770-frame-time-13.html

 

[PetesPockets55]

Check out the 1st pic in post #185 in the following link to see whitetail antler artifacts.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-indian-artifacts/656770-frame-time-13.html

Thanks T-Dog.

That is an amazing thread with all those frames. A person could get lost for hours marveling at and studying all the relics in all those frames.

 

[MAMucker]

Rodents it is. Thanks again for the clarification.
The couple of tines with few or no ridge/gnaw marks kind of threw me. Guess they may have broken off after being weakened by the varmints.

BTW- How did NA remove the tines for use as a tool or point? Sawing with a stone blade (or steel blade in more "modern" times)?

That?s a great question. I?ve wondered about that myself after trying to whittle one off with a pocket knife. A blistering task without modern tools for sure.

 

[monsterrack]

This is a bone cut with stone and then snapped. It was found in a archaeologists dig site.

 

[Older The Better]

It’s not my best example but the one I was able to find relatively fast, here’s an example of cut marks on a whitetail rib. It’s from a native site that has lots of bone, many pieces are burnt and some have cut marks. Notice they aren’t paired up and run at slightly different angles. Rodent are paired and much wider marks