Clovis Platter Bifaces

ToddsPoint

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I've been reading Gramly's new book. "The Bowser Road Mastodon..." Gramly says the way Africans kill elephants is by first disabling them with an axe chop to the Achilles tendon. Once cut, the elephant can't walk and can be dispatched with spears.

So where would a paleo Indian get an axe? Gramly's theory is that they hafted a platter biface edgewise in a branch and used it as an axe to cut the tendon.:icon_scratch:

I'm not sure what to think about it. He's definitely thinking outside the box. Gary
 
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Garscale

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I would hate to be the guy responsible for hamstringing a mammoth with a platter.
 

Quartzite Keith

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But one has to consider that while African and south Asian elephants had the luxury of co-evolving along side early Hominids, American species did not. Based on the thickness of the bones, it is estimated Mammoths topped out at about 13 mph. African elephants are known to hit 25 mph in short sprints. I believe that once a group of athletic men were able to isolate and surround a Mammoth, it was as good as dead, with relatively little risk to the hunters.
 

joshuaream

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Good point. Sink a couple darts/spears into the lungs or or gut and wait for it to die. I don't think a quick kill was as particularly important back then as it is now.

Humans are also among the best long distance runners in the animal kingdom. Lots of animals (horses, deer, elephants, caribou, etc) can beat us for a couple of miles but humans who have been running distance since they were children can out run any land based prey animal. Some of the Kenyans and Ethiopians who do well in marathons run 75 miles everyday at a slow steady clip. (An endurance race horse can do 100+ miles in 24 hours with breaks, and many will still die. A decent ultra marathon runner can do that easily. 170 miles in 24 hours is a top level athlete.)

But one has to consider that while African and south Asian elephants had the luxury of co-evolving along side early Hominids, American species did not. Based on the thickness of the bones, it is estimated Mammoths topped out at about 13 mph. African elephants are known to hit 25 mph in short sprints. I believe that once a group of athletic men were able to isolate and surround a Mammoth, it was as good as dead, with relatively little risk to the hunters.
 

joshuaream

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Would you elaborate on the subject please?
What is your evidence?
How are you interpreting what he has dug?

I know Dr Gramly and I don't think he'd disagree that thinks outside the box. A lot of "name brand" archaeologists will propose or take a stance on an idea, and that generates healthy debate & research.

Edit:

By Name brand archaeologist I just mean widely recognized for not being afraid of publishing a potentially radical idea. (Stanford, Bradley, Adovasio, Dillihey, Haynes, Jennings, Goodyear, Binford, Waters, Frison, etc. etc. etc.)
 
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Fat

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I have met him at LAS shows and just sit at his table and wait for a topic from someone or just sit and ask him questions. I think he is really interesting and has as much field work as anyone to back up his ideas
 

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ToddsPoint

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unclemac

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I've actually given this a lot of thought....along the lines of "how would I do it". I wouldn't bother with the big ones but would go after a large less dangerous juvenile, which would still render a lot of meat and material. I have also read that animals that did not evolve with humans were fairly easy to walk up on, having no experience or fear of people. Since I know my prey, I also know where to strike to have the best kill shot. If you have every been bow hunting elk you know what I mean. But these are herd animals too, so I would want to isolate my mark so the others don't interfere. Again, I am thinking (like elephants) that a juvenile male, not quite sexually active, would be more likely to be alone at times and certainly no longer protected by mom. I wouldn't be hunting alone so my strike would be coordinated with other hits and yes, perhaps incapacitating legs would be helpful. Maybe too I would scout out the old, the injured, the lame, the weak the way prey animals do. In any case given a choice, I would live on the coast and eat oysters and all those salmon that practically would jump into my lap.
 

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