Could a gang of 17th century shipwreck suvivors salvage a roughly 1000 LB. cannon ?

[Jolly Mon]

Here is the basic scenario: a large galleon is wrecked, many of the crew survive and make it to shore. The ship is broken up, but not in the surf zone, rather on the inside of an inlet where after the passage of the storm, more or less calm conditions would usually prevail.

A large labor force is available...more than 100 survivors.

Could these survivors, without any outside assistance, be able to salvage and remount on shore a cannon in the range of 1000 pounds ?

I guess we can assume at least a couple of ship's boats would have been available...

This scenario actually happened...

My thinking is that the gun would have had to have been lost very close to shore and then drug inland by rope...

Any thoughts on whether an isolated group in the 17th century could have somehow floated the cannon and moved it a substantial distance by boat??

 

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[SADS 669]

JM,

These guys could have done whatever they wanted with a 1000lb cannon. At that time they re masted vessels in the jungles and did unbelievable things based solely on enthusiasm and direction from really smart " get it done" people

 

[trsrseeker]

No question they could if the object was shallow enough to get a line around.

 

[Ocean7]

I'm wondering why you ask this question? Do you think the cannon is buried there on the beach somewhere after many storms?

 

[Sommy]

A 1000lb cannon, absolutely, but did you mistype that and mean a 10,000lbs canon? Its amazing how slick metal can get on rocks depending on the type...even easier to move on a sled made of dunnage and timbers from a shipwreck.

 

[Smithbrown]

Crews would have been used to lifting and moving cannons on board ship using simple lifting equipment and manpower. And 1000 pound cannon is on the low side in terms of weight.

 

[jeff of pa]

a couple tree trunks or pieces of Ship, floating above the cannon,
Rope & a little ingenuity, (once tied fast, Twisting the ropes with boards to Lift)
could make it light enough to guide it in to shore pretty quickly.

what would have been their rationalization for doing so ?

I mean instead of simple Survival from a ship wreck,
or bringing up treasures instead.
I don't think cannon were considered Treasure Back then.
and if they were sunk in Battle, odds of getting set up on shore in time to fight back
seems like desperate measures to me. they would also need dry Powder, a lighting source & Ammo just as quickly.

as SADS 669 says, they could have done it.
especially with 100 survivors, all givin' a job to do.
I just can't see how they could justify doing it,
unless they were stranded on an Island known to be
frequented by their Enemy & wanted to let them know they were there.
or to be used as a Help signal.

Sorry I'm terrible at Drawing, Especially online using a mouse and paint
2 People needed

 

[SADS 669]

If they are making a defensive fort or camp, a cannon or two would be vital, especially if someone could just sail into the inlet and they had no way of stopping them....if they had ships boats they had shot etc......you could dangle a cannon under a ships boat.and maybe move it anywhere

 

[releventchair]

Capstans were used for other purposes and may allow drags or lifts. Jeff of Pa.,s Spanish windlass could help,often a cross piece long enough on one side to foul against an object or in his drawing another rope to prevent backlash. Leverage and cannon shape may factor too. Easier to drag or manipulate than some items.
My first idea would be a capstan with weight capacity,some anchors may give hints of capacity, and hoist up to relocate. With the equivalent of today's snatch block to compound winching force getting it from shallows to shore would seem easy enough. At weight equivalent of five men a thousand pound cannon no match for a hundred. If cannon shallow enough a raft could be built under it. In a treeless area any heavy or bulky object could be used as a deadman. Buried to hold.An anchor. The Spanish recovery attempts on the Atocha were hindered by depth and hurricane. So a cannon in reach would be easy pickins. They were gathering equipment for recovery prior to hurricane so the technology was there in the sixteen hundreds.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Thanks for all the replies!!

The shipwreck was French.

The shipwreck occured in the contested territory of "La Florida". The French built a fort after the wreck, both for protection from
the Spanish and from the natives.

Some months after the wreck, Indians suprised and overran the French, capturing most of them.

The Spanish got wind of the wreck (the ship was well known to Spanish authorities and had committed certain "depredations" on the Spanish Main) and began actively searching for the wreck and for any survivors as it became known that French survivors were living amongst the Indians.

A Spanish party found the fort. It was deserted except for dead bodies. The Spanish official in charge expressly mentions in his report to the Spanish crown finding a (saker??) of around "doze quintales". ( I am assuming the gun could have weighed anywhere from around 1200 to as many as 2500 LBS...I am just not certain of what this unit of measure would signify in Spanish document of the time period...).

I was hoping to tie the location of the fort to the location of the shipwreck. English explorers a few decades later found the ruins of what they considered an "indian fort" in a most peculiar loction...I believe the fort they found could well have been the ruins of the French fort.

But it sounds as if a gun of this size would have been easy to move, so the wreck could have occured many miles away from the ultimate location of the French fort.

 

[SADS 669]

JM ,

Whereas I agree that the wreck. "could" be a long way from the fort, I very much doubt it, human nature kicks in and the absolute closest, "good" place is Always selected from a military point of view. I very much doubt the wreck is far from the fort in real terms yards more than miles for sure

Best of luck
Kevin

You should be able to work away from the fort with your fingers crossed and pick up a wreckage trail towards the fort ( backtracking) as they probably dropped stuff in the water while retrieving important things.

 

[releventchair]

A hostile situation of natives and rivals might encourage a short distance from salvage operations as well. Fresh water would be a concern though if not convenient to near wreck.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys !

While it might have been possible for the survivors to move the ordinance a long way, I agree they probably would have stayed as close to the main wreckage as possible. One would think they would have been trying to get as much supplies and equipment off the wreck as they could---food, powder, ammunition, cordage, etc., etc.

Fresh water would have been no problem as it is readily available in the area by digging shallow wells.

We shall see !!

 

[Sommy]

I agree if there is no immediate identifiable reason why the fort was place in that very specific spot, it would be to watch over a wreck. Terrain is very important and defensive positions are all about staying alive.

 

[maipenrai]

Not to change the subject, but those Russians are the masters of ingenuity ! I would have been on the telephone, trying to find a crane, to lift that car.

 

[Red James Cash]

I remember reading a book about the war in the south pacific.If i'm remembering right it took place in the Philippines,maybe Burma.A U.S. fighter plane was sunken in a river.The guys at the airbase couldnt figure out how to raise it.The Filipinos,or Burmese came to the rescue,they used bamboo. If you can float a 7000 pound WW2 Warhawk you can float a 1000 pound cannon.

 

[grossmusic]

I love the use of the capstan theory for the Russian SUV. Makes sense that sailors of the era would likely employ similar methods.

You've all given me great ideas for the visuals in the story I'm writing!

 

[Bum Luck]

All you really need is rope and stuff that floats; the rest is easy. A shipwreck has plenty of that lying around.

Remember, the tide comes in and out; either that or a bunch of guys sitting on the raft while divers tie it off, then just jumping off; repeat.

endless possibilities.

Once it gets on a beach, 1000 lbs is easy for a bunch of guys to lift.

Powder would have been in kegs, so some would likely survive dry. Balls could retrieved from the wreck.

No problem.