✅ SOLVED Couple of things gun-related

[TrpnBils]

So I found this cylinder from a revolver at a very productive Civil War site I have been going to. Is there any way to tell if it's period or not? I really doubt it is, but there have been some other amazing things come out of this site (including the belt plate in my avatar) before, so I just want to be sure.

Also, the bullet on the right of the other picture has brass attached to it. Were brass cartridges used during that time period or did they just use paper ones? It sure looks to me like a CW 3-ringer bullet, but I have never found one with part of the cartridge attached before.

 

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[TrpnBils]

Pics too large to do all at once!

 

[SkaBa]

Nice finds!

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I would say the cylinder is not CW era. The only metallic cartridges were .22 Short rimfire or pin-fire, and it appears to be about a .32 S&W size.

 

[TrpnBils]

I would say the cylinder is not CW era. The only metallic cartridges were .22 Short rimfire or pin-fire, and it appears to be about a .32 S&W size.

Yeah - I figured it probably wasn't but I'm certainly in no position to determine that myself... So that leads me to another question then. If the only metallic cartridges were .22 caliber, does that mean that my bullet there with some brass left on it is also not CW?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I defer to CW gurus on that. There were several rifle cartridges with brass cases in the later CW. I don't know the bullet shapes they used.

 

[baspinall]

Doesn't look the era to me. Looks like a 1930's cylinder to me. The metal doesn't look right either almost like it was nickel plated.

 

[ecmo]

Civil war revolvers were only cap and ball, so not "bored through" cylinders, also to the best of my knowledge the first cylinders with flutes were the 1873 Colt model P.

In revolvers during the war .36 and .44 caliber much in use. My eyes must be bad but I seen no case still attached to a bullet. I am no cw expert but have seen many relic posts by others to say without much doubt those are 30's bullets.

Again that's a much later cylinder.

Don

 

[ecmo]

Edit cw bullets not 30's

Don

 

[TrpnBils]

Thanks ecmo - there is definitely still a ring of brass on that one bullet there. I'll see if I can get a better photo, or at least zoomed in on that one. Haven't looked at the caliber yet, but the cleaner bullet came from an adjacent site tonight too so I just stuck it there for reference for now.

 

[taz42o]

.54 burnside bullet.
Cylinder looks potmetal, toy?

 

[TrpnBils]

Nice - sure looks like that's the one! As far as the cylinder being from a toy - it may be, but it would have been from one heavy toy gun! That cylinder has some mass to it for sure.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

to the best of my knowledge the first cylinders with flutes were the 1873 Colt model P.

There were 1860 Colt Army, and '61 Navy revolvers made with fluted cylinders, but they are pretty rare.

 

[HuntinDog]

Your bullet on the left is a Williams Cleaner

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

As far as "early fluted revolver cylinders" look at the S&W Model 1-1/2

Pre-Civil War in .22 Short, but it wasn't until the second issue that a fluted .32 S&W version was produced - in 1868. The S&W Model 1 also had a fluted cylinder in the third issue (also 1868). Five years before the Colt M1873

 

[TrpnBils]

Your bullet on the left is a Williams Cleaner

Yep, I don't know many bullets, but I did know that one! It was a first for me, and I included it for reference on the other bullet's size.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I was looking for something else and came across this revolver with fluted cylinders and it reminded me of this thread..... This one is a flintlock made by Elisha Collier in 1820 so it seems cylinder fluting has been around for a good long time....

 

[TrpnBils]

THat's a wild looking gun! How long has serial numbering been used on stuff like this? I haven't been able to find one yet.

 

[taz42o]

Your cylinder is from a cap gun.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

THat's a wild looking gun! How long has serial numbering been used on stuff like this? I haven't been able to find one yet.

That depends on what you mean by serial number.... Serial numbers as we know them, weren't required by law in the US until the GCA of 1968, so you can find factory made guns made all the way until 1967 with no serial numbers on them. Early guns will sometimes have numbers on the parts, but these aren't really a true serial number. Until mass production came along the parts to an individual gun were fitted to that specific gun, and not necessarily interchangeable so the makers would mark the parts to know which gun they went to and to keep them from getting mixed up on the work bench. A lot of guns were made by individual gunsmiths and were pretty much one offs or similar guns but not identical from one to the next, and they would generally be marked with the makers name or another identifying mark. I think the Brown Bess was the first standardized military gun that had parts interchangeability, but any numbering of parts you find on them is more likely to be a means of identifying the maker of the part rather than a serial number. I can't remember for certain, and don't quote me on this, but I think Colt was one of the earliest manufacturers to serialize their guns.