CSA Currency, Advice needed..please.

[BC1969]

Hi I don't normally seek out help as I'm very good at researching things. Last few months I've been detecting one of my best spots to date that's yielded some great coins from its soil. Today while going over finds with the family patriarch, a very sharp 93 year old. We got to talking history and in my experience history is best experienced through those who made it. The family originally was from virginia. Well as I'm told part of the family came to Michigan in 1837, been in the same house since, and had a bunch of children through the generations that were very good at losing coins as its the best location I've ever been on in my 35 years detecting.

Well anyway back to the point, when the civil war was in full speed ahead mode, three relatives from down south were worried for their amassed fortune and buried all their heavy coins down there, ( yeah thinking what I am heh ) and brought all their paper money to Michigan in winter of 186?. Which I just happened to be priviledged enough to get to see as the patriarch was thrilled to relive his memories and I'm apparently the only person that was truly interested in history enough to let him tell me about it for a couple of weeks.
Well he asked if I'd be interested in buying a portion of these old paper monies. He has 300 notes ranging from 1 to 500 dollar notes, he wants quite a small fortune, he won't go anywhere with them, and what's worse he won't let anybody in his home..it took me 5 years just to get permission to search his property!! So in my eyes time is of the essence as his health is faltering and well that would be a problem later on.
And his live-in caretaker is mean.

So with zero knowledge on these bills and no way of bringing an expert in, I was wondering what others would do in this position as I'd have to plunk down a big wad of cash, that I'd have to borrow. A good portion of them are 100 and 500 dollar notes and I looked some of those up and can be rather pricey.

I need a crash course in how to grade notes...zero knowledge in that versus coins. Some look brand new, others look like the one he gave me for free, it was the worst condition one I could find as I wanted the worst for this post to give ideas of condition. All the rest of them are way better than this one.
Sorry for the crappy pics, will take better ones in the morning when my batteries are charged.

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Any advice, thoughts... anything will be appreciated. I thought of the possibility of them being reproductions, but the man is 93.

Mike

 

[CaptEsteban]

No matter what, I would treat it AS counterfeit, until proven otherwise . Read the first sentence of this website & go from there .

Serial Numbers on Fake Confederate Money

 

[mrwilburino]

Wow! So 97% of confederate bills are fakes? Then how can you tell if you have a real one........assuming it's not on that list?

 

[Mackaydon]

Since you asked for advice and thoughts, here's mine. Take your first crash course in determining whether or not your CW bills are genuine. If so, then your next crash course in determining condition.
Don...

 

[BC1969]

No matter what, I would treat it AS counterfeit, until proven otherwise . Read the first sentence of this website & go from there .

Serial Numbers on Fake Confederate Money

I really appreciate that link. That serial numbers thing will come in handy, but I guess its possible they could be fake and not on that list. 97% that's nuts something to think about that's for certain, maybe its worth the gamble.
Thanks for the replies.

Mike

 

[OU812]

Hello,
Here is a official site that will give,
You the information you'll need to see if indeed they are fakes or real.
If they are real, you could have a lot of $$$$$ value on top of face value.
oldcurrencyvalues.com

It lists fake bills by serial#
And also a whole description of authentic bills,with pics.

Hope you have the real thing??
All best of luck

 

[Keppy]

Hello,
Here is a official site that will give,
You the information you'll need to see if indeed they are fakes or real.
If they are real, you could have a lot of $$$$$ value on top of face value.
oldcurrencyvalues.com

It lists fake bills by serial#
And also a whole description of authentic bills,with pics.

Hope you have the real thing??
All best of luck

I think you forgot to put up the site

 

[CincinnatiKid]

I too know nothing of confederate bills. But they sure are beautiful.
If story patriarch tells is true, you may have a great opportunity.
Best of luck...
Peace ✌

 

[Rustynailsandscrews]

Not to be a naysayer but in a way the story doesn't make sense. Why would you flee with paper money and leave the coinage behind ? If it was because the South feared defeat, paper money would be worthless and it was worthless in Northern Territory at that time.
Coins on the other hand would retain value in silver and gold content because they were made from valuable metals. Paper on the other hand would be worthless.
Why would someone flee to the North with currency that was absolutely worthless. It just doesn't make sense.
For an example, when the economy goes bad, people take their money and invest in silver and gold because it has value and can be traded anywhere in the world.
The economy in the US has improved and the price of gold and silver have dropped because investors are feeling better about the economy and are turning in gold and silver for paper dollars.
Paper money is an illusion of worth or value.
Gold and silver in hand is real money any where on this planet!
So paper is paper, Gold is gold and Silver is silver.
I'm not saying these bills are fake but I would check them out really well before you make any investment.
I'm not saying your old friend is lying. I'm saying that he's in his 90's and may believe what he is saying to be the truth.
My own father is in his late 70's and when we talk about things in the past he is often mistaken about the year it took place or exactly what happened but he remembers it that way and isn't lying but totally incorrect. Do I argue the point? No, there is no reason to.
Many times there is a story of a story passed down in families and as it gets passed along things change and are added or subtracted and the story becomes twisted.
Check those bills out before you put down any cash.
The story just doesn't make sense in that you would flee to the North with worthless currency.
I was born in N.C. and If I was in the civil war and fleeing North due to Sherman's attack fearing the defeat of the Confederacy I would be carrying the coins and not paper.
If they are real bills you have a very nice find!

 

[BC1969]

Well I feel the same way, every time I talk to him details change in his story. I believe his memories as a child are just to cloudy and he just goes with whatever is in his head that day. Now what's great is the finds from his property, I'll probably post that in a few weeks or whenever the ground freezes. Had my best pocket spill from there ever, 6 walkers, 1 franklin 9 mercs and 13 Wheaties. Spill or intentional, should have seen my 7 foot self doing cartwheels lol.
My guess is whoever told him that story when he was a boy, probably just told family they left the coins there, and maybe just maybe I'll find them buried out back somewhere.

Mike

 

[Rustynailsandscrews]

Well you have a good spot and keep going with it. The coins from the South could be there or perhaps would have been spent to relocate to there.
The paper money would have been worthless and perhaps just stowed away because you couldn't spend it.
Don't get me wrong, the bills could be real!
You should check them out because there is often some truth in a story!
Im guessing the Confederate coins were spent to settle in Michigan and that would make sense.

 

[Boatlode]

So with zero knowledge on these bills and no way of bringing an expert in, I was wondering what others would do in this position as I'd have to plunk down a big wad of cash, that I'd have to borrow.

So your question is: "Should I go into debt to buy some old money that could be fake."

Are you serious?

 

[BC1969]

So your question is: "Should I go into debt to buy some old money that could be fake."

Are you serious?

Who said I'd go into debt ? Borrowing is a fairly general term, could very well be I'd borrow it from an IRA.
So yep I'm serious.

Mike

 

[DiggerGal]

This story is fascinating! I wish you the best of Luck!
One thing to consider is the education level of the family at the time of fleeing with Paper money vs coin.
Many people viewed paper as the ability to "Show" worth and not have to hide it for fear of robbery. Think simplistic here:
Paper is something that I can carry with me and on my person.
Silver/gold coins; too heavy and bulky and would need to be stored (buried) for protection.
Just a thought outside of the History that we know today. We now have knowledge of what happened and in reference to History when you know the outcome it's easy to question why people would have done something when "xyz" happened. However, it was "Happening" in their time and they didn't have the knowledge that we now have today.
Hind sight is 20/20 right?
Amazing discovery you have come upon. Validate and verify and perhaps you have discovered what most will only dream about! HH and I can't wait to see the coins you have unearthed!

 

[BC1969]

I think I'll probably pass on the deal anyway, to many unknowns. Just because that page I was directed to has serials for known fakes, does not mean these aren't unknown fakes. The one he gave me isn't on the known fake list, but that page says 97% of all notes are fake.
I will probably stick to just detecting the property. Never had a bonanza like this before, hopefully the ground stays thawed awhile yet.

Mike

 

[masterjedi]

First there is no face value.... They have no face value.... A $500 note is not a $500 note.... There is no CSA!
They have collectors value only.
Look on eBay for ones that have sold and in specific conditions... there are lots of these for sale...
Real ones have "faded brown" ink signatures & note numbers...
If the signatures are black in color they are fake...
Hope this helps...

Current one for sale...
Confederate $500 Currency Note PMG Graded AU 55 | eBay

 

[Rustynailsandscrews]

This story is fascinating! I wish you the best of Luck!
One thing to consider is the education level of the family at the time of fleeing with Paper money vs coin.
Many people viewed paper as the ability to "Show" worth and not have to hide it for fear of robbery. Think simplistic here:
Paper is something that I can carry with me and on my person.
Silver/gold coins; too heavy and bulky and would need to be stored (buried) for protection.
Just a thought outside of the History that we know today. We now have knowledge of what happened and in reference to History when you know the outcome it's easy to question why people would have done something when "xyz" happened. However, it was "Happening" in their time and they didn't have the knowledge that we now have today.
Hind sight is 20/20 right?
Amazing discovery you have come upon. Validate and verify and perhaps you have discovered what most will only dream about! HH and I can't wait to see the coins you have unearthed!

I disagree and being born and raised in the South and knowing the history, I can clarify this for you. There were very few wealthy Southerners that owned plantations and had a lot of money.
So put, " Gone With The Wind. " out of your mind because that is not how a typical Southerner lived.
For the OP's story to be true we would be dealing with a wealthy Southern in Virginia fearing that the Confederacy would lose and fled with Confederate paper currency to the state of Michigan in which it would be valueless but leave the valuable coinage behind.
Just the denominations of the currency the OP describes would indicate a wealthy plantation owner and not the typical Southern by any means!
So let me get this correct, you think a wealthy Southern took worthless money to Michigan so he could flash paper cash that was worth nothing so the Yankees could laugh and kick dirt on him?
Learn your History my friend ! :
The OP's bills maybe genuine because you could not spend them.
Who ever moved from Virginia to Michigan spent the coins but couldn't spend the worthless paper.
Moving from Virginia to Michigan most have been free back in the 1860's, right?
I seriously don't believe that and that is where all the coins were spent.
Paper= worthless Silver= silver Gold = gold
Right ? Maybe I'm just stupid or something.
Paper is an illusion of real value or money.

 

[CaptEsteban]

Many people think that counterfeit Confederate money was printed long after the war. Much of it was printed early in the war & was used to disrupt the South's economy . Overseas countries provided a lot of the South's arms & supplies . If you were an overseas arms dealer, would you want to sell to the South & have to accept possible fake money ? Those bills have been " faked " about as long as they have been in existence , hence that " 97% are fake " statement.
Good article here ;

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/a-counterfeiting-conspiracy/?_r=0

 

[Boatlode]

Who said I'd go into debt ? Borrowing is a fairly general term, could very well be I'd borrow it from an IRA.
So yep I'm serious.

Mike

Oh, ok. So you're thinking about raiding your retirement fund to buy some old money that could be worthless.

Have I got that right now?

 

[BC1969]

Well you can't take it with you! No kids, bad health, I ain't to worried about it, and the way the world is going, that IRA and its paper will most likely be worthless IF I manage to make retirement age...not likely.

Mike