CZ 21 need tuning?

[sws33]

I'm not sure if there even is such a thing but I'm wondering if my CZ 21 needs to be tuned or retuned. I had it at the beach this morning and just didn't seem to be picking up many targets, those that I did pick up were only three to five in deep. I decided to do a little testing with a quarter I found, so I dug a hole about 8in deep and placed the quarter flat in the bottom of the hole and reburied it. the only way I could get a decent repeatable signal was to have the sensitivity maxed out at 10 and the ground set at 10 as well. Coming down off of either of these settings caused the quarter to go from a high tone to a mid tone or right to an iron tone. bringing them down just another number or two on the settings caused me to lose all signal. There just doesn't seem to be any room for fine-tuning, it's either maxed out and you can find stuff in the 5 to 8 inch range or back it down and lose everything deeper than 5 in. I know my beach has large amounts of black sand mixed in and was wondering if maybe the detector just can't see any deeper than that so I took my quarter up to the dry sand where not much black sand is and ran my tests up there. the results above are from the dry sand not the wet sand with large concentrations of black sand. The results in the wet sand weren't any better. it just seems weird to me that I can run this detector maxed out and get very little falsing in an environment filled with magnetic black sand. Oh, by the way, I can ground balance the machine in my yard but it is just not possible at my Beach. It doesn't matter which method I use, with the ground knob maxed out at 10 it still sounds like I'm pushing a decent amount of sound into the ground as the coil gets down to about three or four in above the sand. If I get any closer than that to the ground the machine starts squealing like I'm over iron. Any help from experienced CZ 20 or 21 users would be appreciated.

 

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[1KBlueTuber]

I would email/msg Casper-2, I know he never ground balances his cz and prefers to work his sensitivity at Max

 

[CASPER-2]

my machines are all set to turn on and go - I own 3 cz21s
one was a converted cz20 - which is my primary machine - I feel it goes deeper
than the other 2 - all three operate slightly different - do not know why -
I use my machines in all metal (auto tune) 99% of the time
I will click to zero to check Id and then click back -
my #1 machine - always run my machines with a hum and can get hum on sensitivity
at around 7-8 ..I set ground balance at 5 on all 3 machines
#2 machine I do not get hum until 9-10
#3 has to be on 10 and even then sometimes it stays silent - have sent
#2 #3 in and asked why they are different with no answers
#3 does not go t old areas with me - #1 is primary where depth is needed
#2 is my back up - if I go with a friend and we are going for fresh (and non deep)
targets - they use #3
I tried the "pump" tuning method once and did not like it - I have my set to get in and go
I have gotten gold rings down in 2 ft range in all metal
and have gotten musket balls and minie balls down in the same range
lots have claimed BS but I have proven it right in front of guys - First CW hunt I decided to
use it at - I hit an area right where guys had parked and had been walked over by a 100 guys
I found 2 cw buttons and a few minies down 1 1/2 ft down - got a few cw horse shoes down over 2ft
2nd hunt I went on I used it - I was finding bullets and balls down in 2 ft range in areas that had been hit 3-4 times before
and guys had said were cleaned out - a couple of guys saw me sweeping over a target - in an area that was covered with old holes - one had a F75 other had a T2 - I told them I had gotten some goodies near by and I had a faint one there
they both ran their coils over area - one got nothing and the other got ghost signals - every 3rd pass he got a little
something but said he would not dig - I went over again - dug down and got a 56 cal. ball right in front of them .
They said wow! - they started to walk away and 3 ft away I got a similar signal - they came back and tried again
with same results - I dug and came up with same results

 

[CASPER-2]

couple of things
1) don't let batteries get too low - you will lose depth and good signals will start leaning towards bad
in ID mode - high will come in as mid and mids will come in as low and if you let them get real low
high will come in as low - I learned that hitting old old beaches in the water - one day I was hitting silver
and indain heads and v nickels in 1 1/2+ range - in all metal going for whispers
next day went back as was only getting low tones when I checked from auto tune - after passing up
20 targets that came in as iron - I decided to go back to one that was very faint but sounded like targets from day
before - I fanned about 6 ins of sand from the spot and rechecked and now it was a mid tone - I scooped
down another foot plus and came up with a crusted dime= silver
so I went back to area where other faint targets came in as low - all were 100 plus year old coins - all real deep
I click to battery check and it was really low tone - probably not far from dead - called it a day
next time there I had new batteries and went back over spot and got a whole new batch of faint targets
and starting pulling some old gold as well as old silver -
1) I was losing depth
2) with batteries low - it does not have the power to produce the higher tones in ID mode
now this does not mean when you batteries get low its time to end the show - it means you
have to dig everything (which 99% I do anyways) or when you get the fainter signals - fan away
some of the sand so coil is closer to the target and recheck
I have my #2 usually with fresh batteries so I can just change machines now
I hit spots that have been peppered by many many guys with Excals over the year and I get stuff they miss
all the time - usually because they crank their discrim. and they lose depth
I was at a beach yrs ago and was already in the water hunting - spot goes back into the late 1800s
a club showed up for a hunt and next thing I know I got dozen others in water with me - like 9 Excal users
a garrett and I think a couple of whites - I head to the far right cause they are entering on the left - slowly they head towards my end and I get out of the water and walk all the way down where they started 9which was the older part of the beach) - I got back in and ended up getting 3 deep gold rings and some old coins (I where a mask always and none of
them were and I got a $20 bill sitting on bottom) One guy finally came down that was using a white (using it wrong - I started out using one and had my own set up for getting more depth or the most depth out of it also) - he said he saw me digging a bit and wondered what I was getting cause out of all of them they did not get much - one guy got a thin gold ankle bracelet and they got some frsh drop coins but not much else - I pulled out my 3 older gold rings and told him they all can from over 1ft+ down. I was also getting green caked coins down deep on that side.

 

[CASPER-2]

on another note - have met guys that own/owned cz20s and cz21s that they did not care for much
and asked why I use and like mine - cause I do pretty good with them
come to find out these guys were using theirs in ID mode all the time and would set them on like 5
they missed deep and small gold right off the bat - and in ID mode if batteries are low... once again
good signals would register as low tones - they would tell me - place has a lot of nails - no it did not
it had a lot of really deep faint targets that came in on their machine as low or nail signals - and I went in
and cleaned up .

 

[CASPER-2]

just a sample of finds - been detecting since 1975 at age 12
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/members/29748-albums.html

mostly from last 20 yrs and not everything
wish I had pics from 1st 20

 

[sws33]

I appreciate all the responses thank you. I believe the detector is working fine, I'm pulling dimes at the park in the 10" range. it just seems weird that no matter where I am when I ground balance, it's always right up around 10. And even way up at 10 it's still sounds like I'm pushing sound into the ground. I can sometimes get it to even out at the park, but it's always up around 8 or 9 on the ground setting. Also, the sensitivity I'm constantly running up at 8, 9 and 10 with very little or no falsing at all. Again, it doesn't matter where I am, at the beach or in the park or in my yard. It just seems like it should be far sparkier with the settings crank way up like that. like the machine is maxed out at a medium level, if it were possible to crank the knobs further past 10 I would be able to do so without running it too hot. The CZ 20 I had it years ago was almost impossible to run past the eight on the sensitivity knob. It would start falsing like crazy past that. for the most part, it is a turn on and go detector like yours, but mine is turned on with the sensitivity at 10 and the ground at 10 with the discrimination set to zero. To me it just seems like it should be falsing way more than it does set that way. I guess I shouldn't complain when I'm pulling 9 and 10 in dimes out of the ground, I just feel like it has untapped power available, I just can't turn the knobs far enough to access it.

 

[CASPER-2]

you should not be running ground at 10 if you don't have to - running higher ground balance will not
help with depth - I never run above 5 - no matter in water or on land - no matter if up here
or down south

 

[sws33]

That's what I was thinking as well, that I shouldn't have to run it at 10, but even at 10 while bobbing the coil it's still pushing the sound to the ground, there is no way to crank it to where it would actually be a negative signal as opposed to positive. So on my machine, running it at 5 would be running it super positive as even at 10 its pushing sound into the ground. I can't really say the machine as messed up as I had it out yesterday and pulled at least a couple of dimes from around 9 in and the signal I got was strong enough that I could hold the coil 3 or 4 inches above the ground and still get it. It just seems wrong to me that there is virtually no way to completely or properly ground balance the machine with anything less than a positive signal.

 

[sws33]

my CZ 21 is at Fisher being repaired and I found out today that the reason the ground balance seems so screwed up is because the machine is, according to Felix, way out of calibration. there is also some issue with the coil wire where it goes into the main housing having some kind of break or tear in it which caused the machine to function properly right side up but would not function at all upside down, which is a problem for me because I have my CZ 21 mounted to an Andersen shaft which puts it upside down under the arm cuff. Either way, I'm happy to be having my machine shipped by the end of this week and functioning the way it should. Looks like I'm going to have to relearn the machine now, at least the ground balancing part.