Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500 - **UPDATE-**

[Monty]

I know how deep I have found some of my targets out in the field but just for fun I decided to plant some deep coins and see if I could find them with the ACE 250 and the large coil and my GTI 2500 with the standard coil.

I buried a wheat cent and a silver Roosie dime at a measured 10 inches.The soil was barely damp and we don't have a mineralization problem here. The air temp was about 73 degrees and the relative humility was about 70%.

I first tried the ACE250 with fully charged batteries and ran through all the various preset discrimination modes, sensitivity at my usual 4 bars. Nothing, not a peep, not a hint of anything being in the ground but dirt! I kicked the sensitivity all the way up and then backed off two bars so it would stabilize, ran through the identical set and nothing again. I then held the pinpoint button down and tried it again but could not detect either coin. Disappointing but not surprised. I once detected a silver dime at 9" in a controlled hunt, but only that once and never again. I do have several finds at 6" and that seems to be about max.


The GTI 2500 was even more disappointing. I was using the standard coil and ran through the discrimination modes but no sign of a target. I switched to all metal and sensivity of 12 and just barely got a faint tone. It was not of sufficient strength that I would dig it in evary day use. I was really disappointed because of the almost thousand dollars difference in price of the two detectors and no more depth than I was getting with the "Cadillac". I have detected and dug steel targets from that depth with the 2500, but they were all in the iron range.....and large, very large!

So, from my results I would have to say my beloved Garrett machines are not the deep hunters I thought . Now I am not going to get rid of them because of that, at six inches or less they both are killer machines. For those of us who put much stock in depth, I would look elsewhere. Monty

 

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[stoney56]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

I wonder how the Sea Hunter would do on those. Since under general
circumstances most coins and etc. are found at less than 10" with the exception of razed properties or plowed fields, I wouldn't be too concerned.
However, Saturday's offer still stands if you change your mind.

 

[hollowpointred]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

i would have to agree with your tests monty. in fact, i have noticed very little depth differance between the ace and the 2500. very dissapointing indeed. a while back i picked up a new machine which is not a garrett( which will remain nameless as not to start the detector wars! ) and i was amazed at the depth differance! i still like the garretts for jewelry and clad hunting though, but for looking for the oldies, i will have to grab brand "B".

 

[Monty]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Hmmm, never even thought of the Sea Hunter. Since it's a PI machine it should pick them up. I'll fire it up this afternoon and see what it does.

In the past I have knida' scoffed at the "dig deep" guys because it's pretty well known that most finds are from 4 to 6" or less. But maybe that's because of the limitation of the machines many detectorists use? I know of a place that has to be loaded with silver coin and jewelry but no one ever finds anything there. I think it's deep, "deep" meaning 10 to 12". and I don't know of anyone who has gone that deep to find out.

So, a fellow can change his mind can't he? And a little crow doesn't taste that bad if properly prepared. What I really think has swayed my thinking is my level of sophistication or plain old experience. Since I have been at it for a while I have picked up a wealth of good information on this forum as well as in the field. Going out and digging up a ton of clad and cheap jewelry at the local park isn't near as satisfying as it was when I first began. Therefore there are more days that I don't go out because I am tired of the same old routine. I think I'm ready to really hunt the "good stuff" now. So, I am taking stock of things now to see where I want to go from here. Meanwhile I have a club competition hunt this week end and I need to go practice with my gear. Monty

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Monty,

sounds, to me, like you may be in
the market for a new machine

Another tool for your bag of tricks.

Have a good un................
SHERMANVILLE

 

[Blackjack77]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Monty-- i tried a similar experiment in My garden last year using a friends 250 and my own
2500 and BH 3300. Buried and marked different coins- clad and silver, even a silver dollar at
depths up to 12". Biggest silver could not be found by any at 12"- -2500 gave a signal at 10" and at 8" the 250 started talking. 3300 wasn't even in the contest till 6". Would the signals at 8" and 10" be good enough to dig?? Probably not. Fast forward to this year-- hunting with a guy using an XLT and Ace 250 and Me with My GTI 2500. Spot turned out to
produce alot of shot shell heads. could image and detect to about 8" accurately. XLT and 250 also did well to these depths. Soil was perfect loamy and easy digging. Conclusion for Me was --all three detectors did well in comparison-- even imaging to 8" with the 2500. Type of soil,conditions and length of time buried was difference as compared to last Years garden experiment.
Seeing the GTI against other detectors helped Me to regain confidence in its abilities. Is it as deep as brand "B" ?? detected against an older brand"B" earlier this spring and didn't see much difference. Operator skill and confidence still are the most important in My mind.
As always this is the opinion of the writer -- each to his own,,happy with My own!!!!
HH

 

[Monty]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Thanks for the comments Blackjack, I'm beginning to think that on a given day at any location with the same equipment a person could get different results. Did you have the standard coil on your 2500? I have the big 14" coil but didn't try it. It's just too darn heavy for me.

Yes, I would like to get another detector but I am detector poor right now (5). I wish I could try a couple of the better known ones before I decide to buy. I'd hate to invest another thousand bucks and not come out with something better. Besides that my wife would kill me and it would be justified. And I am purposely not mentioning any particular brand or model. Monty

 

[Blackjack77]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Monty, I used the standard coil-- yes the 12" is very heavy.It makes an already heavy
MD worse.Would not hesitate to use it in an open field with little trash and deep targets.
Would have to rest or switch sides fairly often. I'm a lefty but have been working on being
comfortable swinging right!!
I'm actually relieved to be satisfied with the 2500- -could not justify or afford another
high end detector. Garrett products are great for the average detectorist like Me. Learning
some others would take more time than I have to devote to this Hobby right now!! Garrett
has enough options for most conditions,yet can be used quite easily- -couldn't say "mastered"-- I know that's a word that doesn't describe Me yet!!!!
HH

 

[hollowpointred]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Monty, I used the standard coil-- yes the 12" is very heavy.It makes an already heavy
MD worse.Would not hesitate to use it in an open field with little trash and deep targets.
Would have to rest or switch sides fairly often. I'm a lefty but have been working on being
comfortable swinging right!!
I'm actually relieved to be satisfied with the 2500- -could not justify or afford another
high end detector. Garrett products are great for the average detectorist like Me. Learning
some others would take more time than I have to devote to this Hobby right now!! Garrett
has enough options for most conditions,yet can be used quite easily- -couldn't say "mastered"-- I know that's a word that doesn't describe Me yet!!!!
HH

i agree, the Garrett is fine for most conditions. most coins are really not super deep anyway. what bothers me is the fact that a 2500 isn't cheap! for a machine in that price range i guess i just expected more depth. i must say though that the imaging and all of the other features (except for surface elimination) worked just fine. as far as the weight thing, try one of those harness thingies. they really do help.

 

[txkickergirl]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

At 18" I can pick up a mason jar of coins with the 2500 using the 12" coil. We had 2 jars planted one on its side and one up and down. The one up and down was easier to pick up, here is the kicker. Neither one showed coins it showed screw lid because that is what the machine is picking up was the lid not the coins. The jar laying down did have signals that bounced around showing coins but honestly if I did not know what was buried I would not of dug the signals it gave me. So here is the key if you are searching for anything over around 9" you need to dig everything because the machine is not accurate on telling you what it is or how deep it is. It will find it but you have to train yourself to throw out discrimnation and just dig everything. At those depths its designed for cache hunting not coin shooting. But thats just the opinion I got. The jars have been buried for over 1 month now so this weekend we plan on retesting the theory to see if we get any different readings.

 

[Monty]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

I have found that anything deep that is larger than the scale on the 2500 will just give the overload signal, or the little size and depth unknown voice message from that nice lady that talks to you. The manual says you should dig these signals. I have found that they are often two objects of similar composition at slightly different depths. Oh, by the way I'm not the only one that hears that voice am I? Just wanted to be sure I am not losing it! I catch myself arguing with her!

I want to be clear about this post. I am not knocking the 2500, it's a great machine, but I agree, for the cost it doesn't perform too much better than say the 1500 model. I have one of those bungi and strap rigs that I slightly modified to work better because of my back injury. I can swing it for a couple of hours without too much fatigue and that is with the standard coil and my Sunray unit attached. With the 14" coil however the machine seems to lose its balance and I find it difficult to swing. Maybe it's just me but it feels really awkward.

About the Sunray unit. The 2500 is so darn accurate at pinpointing I don't use it as much as I would with say,...my ACE 250. I have trouble with the Sunray in a deep hole if the object is lodged along or within an inch or so of the side of the hole. The Sunray unit will pick up the signal not only from the tip of its tiny coil but to the sides as well and you have to be very careful to run the probe tip along the sides as well as the bottom of the hole or you might be fooled. I have often wondered if the Sunray coil could be shielded some way on the sides and have only the tip "hot" so to speak? Monty

 

[khouse]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Detectors just have a hard time finding a coin in a freshly buried hole. Next time you find a deep coin in the field cover it back up in the hole and see if you can get a beep on it with the same settings. I think no matter how good you repack the soil there's nothing that can replace time in the ground. For me 8 inches is as deep as I want to dig and most detectors will beep that deep. If I could buy a detector that could accurately ID a coin down 24 inches I wouldn't want it. Unless at the beach or relic hunting. I would hate to see my detector tell me to dig 18 inches on a target only to find a tab with a huge hole. Maybe it's just me?

 

[txkickergirl]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Oh, by the way I'm not the only one that hears that voice am I? Just wanted to be sure I am not losing it! I catch myself arguing with her!



LMAO God I am glad someone else admits to arguing with her, it got so bad I turned her off. Seriously....it was wrong all the time! Now I just wait to see what nice surprise I have waiting at the bottom of the hole, because if I had listened to the treasure talk witch I would be digging 12"+ holes still. Does any one have problems with the 2500 giving signals when passed over holes that are truly empty or tire ruts?

 

[Monty]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

No. No false signals on mine. If there's a signal, there's always something there. Not always what that nice lady says is there though. Probably have your sensitivity up too high. I run mine at 8 or 9 and if I go over that I get some chatter. Monty

 

[Blackjack77]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Very few false signals with Mine- -an occansional tree root will give a false. Happens
with every MD I own. I usually run sensitivity at 7.5, wet conditions down to 5.5 at the lowest.Never run it above 9-- soil conditions up here ,these settings work best!
HH

 

[Ricardo_NY1]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

Monty, while I believe that a dime at 9 inches is out of reach for a 250 in most if not all situations, (Not sure what a GTI 2500 is capable of), I think the results were affected by planting the coins. Let me explain, I've planted coins at 4' inches for the 250, and guess what? Many times not even a peep as you mentioned. Of course a 250 has no problem picking up a dime at 4", I find them at that depth and even deeper. Even old rusty dimes that I've dug up and reburied in the hole do not get picked up when buried past 3 inches at times. My point? That there is a big difference in depth when going over a coin that's been laying there for a while and one that was just planted. I don't know the technical reasons for this, as much as I don't know the technical reasons as to why Minelab explorers don't do to well on air tests but punch through the ground like nothing. I would try another version of this test Monty starting with the 2500 out in the field and trying to locate the deepest and best dime signal, going over it with the 250 to see if the 250 picks it up (And vice cersa), and if the dime is dug, you will have the results in depth difference between these two machines, so on and so on.

 

[MD Dog]

Re: Depth experiment on ACE 250 and GTI 2500

I have watched people time and again become frustrated with the depth of the 250 as well as many other machines. But the truth is alot of things affect detection of metals at varying depths. The most common thing I have witnessed time and time again is people fail to realize how these machines work. The shape of the magnetic field generated by all but the DD type coils is conical. thus if your trying to hunt deeper targets the first thing you must do is slow down your advance not your swing but your movement forward. Because you are now using the very tip of the cone shaped magnetic field when searching deep you have to realize the size of your search area is reduced to only a pinpoint. Thus I tend to spend many minutes in one place really scouring the ground and have been very successful at depths of 9"-10" with the standard coil and even 10"-12" with the 9x12" coil in a farmers field. But again, soil type, moisture content, metal bleed, mineralization all play a part in depth of detection.


P.S. I hunt mostly 1700 to 1800 aged sites and have only very rarely found coins deeper than 7"-8" and they were usually buried deeper by soil disturbances like floods, construction, plowing etc...

 

[Monty]

Now that the test coins have been in the ground for some length of time I decided to test the ACE 250 and the larger coil again. Went out in the area where the coins were buried and fired up the old ACE. I knew the general area but not exact since I didn't mark the location in any way Sure enough within 20 minutes I had found all the coins and dug them up! I had the sensitivity set on the 5th notch and was in zero discrimination mode. The signal was also very sharp and clear. So, if they have been in the ground awhile they do react differently than when first buried. I was quite pleased to say the least. Learn something new every day. I would not hesitate to hunt an old site with the ACE 250 and the large coil now that I know how it reacts. This darn cheapo ACE still amazes me as to its versatility for an inexpensive detector. The only problem I experienced was a little difficulty in pinpointing with the larger coil. I have learned to just dig a little larger plug than normal and it (the target) will be there.. M nty

 

[MD Dog]

little trick I learned Monty with the ace 250 and any of it's coils including the 9x12. After getting a signal or hit, zero in on that spot as much as possible by swinging in smaller and smaller arcs. When the ace is sounding off like a church bell stop and place your coil right on top of the target. Now use your wrist to make the coil wag left, rightleft,right while dragging the coil backwards stop imediately when the ringing stops. The target will be directley in front and below front edge of the coil.

 

[tmanfromtexas]

Its irony I tell ya!!! I was just getting ready to put a new topic about the depth of the ace 250 and saw this one. I went to a school today in Gary Indiana. School was built in '56. I doubt that its been hunted much. To explain my reason for this is I pulled $12.+ out of the ground last weekend. Today I pulled a total of 17.20. Total coin count was almost 300 coins. Not one silver. NOT ONE!!!! and only 1 wheatie. It was at 4 inches. I have dug down 6-8 inches pulling out dimes and pennies. I used the standard eliptical coil for the most part but thought well heck. Maybe I need the biggun to get a little deeper. Didnt make a difference except for the big a$$ holes I dug for the dimes. lol. I spoke to an older gentleman this morning and asked him if they had ever brought fill in and he said that they never had so what the heck am I doing wrong. The playground area still has the original equipment it seems so surely kids lost coins back in the fifties and sixties. Any ideas are appreciated. TMAN...