Digging a BIG hole at the beach.

[grizzly bare]

Hi all you sand diggers! I've got a question that is pretty straight forward.
I need to "dig" a hole that will be five feet deep on the beach. The area is usually under the water, but is clear just before, during, and just after low tide. Do I go in with a dredge at low tide? a ski doo and a blower at high tide? Get two friends and a case of beer at any tide?
We're looking at a box approximately 2 feet by three feet by 18 inches. Looks like it has material (probably clothing) paper (maps? manuscript? money?) and metal (guns? utensils? money{gold, silver}) I don't really care if the box gets destroyed, but not during high tide.

grizzly bare

 

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[deepsix47]

Good Luck Grizz. It's pretty much a lost cause given your description. The problem is not only mother nature. The State, County, and City governments get a bit upset with major projects and that is what you are considering. However, I do have a suggestion if you don't want to get permits, use a coffer dam and all of the rest.

Get a Back Hoe onto the beach, dig your target and get out (this is a night stealth mission we're talking about here....lol). We had a similar target about 10 years ago on a particular beach. We attempted all of your ideas and a few more. We even tried a coffer dam. We made a plan to get a Back Hoe onto the beach one night at a low tide the following week. The deep target looked like the exact dimensions of a chest or even a crate that would have been used to transport coins in when we mapped it with our MD's. Anyway, a trip to the beach the day before our dig date showed our target (a little storm surf and an extreme low tide had done the work for us. It was a 350 engine block....lol. I don't know that it would have worked but at least it's an idea that in our case has gone unproven.

Good luck with your hunt!!
Deepsix

 

[COUNTRY GIRL]

Go with the beer and the buds, no pun intended (right). If it is a 350 or even a 181 4cyl, at least you'll of had a ball!!

 

[grizzly bare]

Thanks Deep,
We've verified that the "object" is both wooden and metallic. When a probe is pushed through the sand and bounced, it sounds sometimes like wood and occasionally more solid like metal bands. By probing, we have determined that the size is pretty much what I stated earlier. Tried the shoveling deal and it just doesn't work. We can get oh-so-close but then the returning tide catches up with us and we lose the hole.
I have never seen a detectorist on this beach and I can only get there on weekends now (damn job). This may have to wait until next summer.
Almost heresy I know, but could we punch a hole in the top and try a dredge to get anything out?
You know, an 8 inch pipe to chest, sharp iron bar, and then lower a hose?

grizzly bare

you know, a backhoe during the winter months at night might not be a totally bad idea.

gb

 

[gold-digger]

If your up north, wait till the off season when its less crowded and just get a couple of buddies and dig.
Whose to say you cant bury yourself in the sand so long as you fill it in afterwards. Its just going to take some time.

You could also set up a cabana around the hole, so your not as visible to an audience.

 

[grizzly bare]

country girl,
I used to have a cool little Chevy Monza that used a 151 four cylinder. had more fun in that car than should have been allowed by law....Wait, just remembered . A LOT of it wasn't allowed by any laws.

grizzly bare

 

[deepsix47]

Thanks Deep,
We've verified that the "object" is both wooden and metallic. When a probe is pushed through the sand and bounced, it sounds sometimes like wood and occasionally more solid like metal bands. By probing, we have determined that the size is pretty much what I stated earlier. Tried the shoveling deal and it just doesn't work. We can get oh-so-close but then the returning tide catches up with us and we lose the hole.
I have never seen a detectorist on this beach and I can only get there on weekends now (damn job). This may have to wait until next summer.
Almost heresy I know, but could we punch a hole in the top and try a dredge to get anything out?
You know, an 8 inch pipe to chest, sharp iron bar, and then lower a hose?

grizzly bare

you know, a backhoe during the winter months at night might not be a totally bad idea.

gb

I would be concerned about the dredge idea as you do not know the chests contents. Also, should the chest colapse, recovering contents with the dredge could prove impossible. With the back hoe bucket, you have a chance of bringing all out in tact and then, should the chest collapse, a few more dips with the bucket and you've recovered the contents, more or less intact. Again, the best of luck to you with your project.
Deepsix

 

[Gary in Daytona]

Last time I broke down and dug something like that, it turned out to be a gas tank from a car. Sure sounded good when I hit it with the shovel. And the straps were there as well. One hour, down the tubes. Oh well, at least it sedated my curiosity for what was down there.

 

[grizzly bare]

Engines, gas tanks, sounds like we have some interesting things left on the beach. You know, even if this turns out to be a big flop, I will still have hundreds of hours of glorious anticipation.
It's the hunt not the recovery. (yeah right)

grizzly bare

 

[shootist]

You can rent a Bobcat pretty cheap,get it in the evening have it back first thing in the morning they would only charge you half a day,Id get one with tracks on it for the beach,be a hell of a lot less conspicuous than pulling out a great big backhoe a lot easier and cheaper too HH

 

[Trez]

Here are my 2 cents........
Wait for a strong "minus" tide.........this will give you more time to work the sand.
Take the 2 diggers.......and work quick! or buy a small bobcat at the auction, file off serial numbers...and get busy.
the strong minus tide will help.

Good luck,
Post the finds...please. Good or Bad.

Trez

 

[Cape May Beach Bum]

Not sure about the beach your hunting, but at the beach I hunt all summer at about 6 am each morning
the city comes on the beach with giant sand cleaners. Normally after the sand cleaning equipment goes through a guy comes along in a giant front end loader. This has a bucket on it that is 12 feet wide at least and probably 6 feet high. The driver goes along the high tide line and picks up everything from broken beach chairs to boggie boards to drift wood. Not sure you'd want to let a stranger in on your find,
but may cut the guy in or offer to give him $50.00 or whatever. The machines I've seen would get to the 5 foot depth in one scoop, and your outta there.
Best of luck whatever you try, keep us posted on your selected method and the results.
CMBB

 

[grizzly bare]

bum,
same thing on this beach. "Sweeper" early in the morning. Do those things stop after labor Day? Is there a time during the year that they wouldn't show up?
After some reflection, I'm liking the bobcat idea. I've seen cars swallowed at Daytona, would we have to worry about that with a track machine?

grizzly bare

 

[deepsix47]

bum,
same thing on this beach. "Sweeper" early in the morning. Do those things stop after labor Day? Is there a time during the year that they wouldn't show up?
After some reflection, I'm liking the bobcat idea. I've seen cars swallowed at Daytona, would we have to worry about that with a track machine?

grizzly bare

Not Likely, especially if you wait for a good minus tide.
Deepsix

 

[Cape May Beach Bum]

bum,
same thing on this beach. "Sweeper" early in the morning. Do those things stop after labor Day? Is there a time during the year that they wouldn't show up?
After some reflection, I'm liking the bobcat idea. I've seen cars swallowed at Daytona, would we have to worry about that with a track machine?

grizzly bare

GB
Like deepsix said, minus low tide will really help. The track type bobcats are pretty stable. Just make sure if you rent it you take out all the insurance.
The beach cleaners where I go I believe clean for awhile after labor day. But normally on Mondays, as the city tries to cut out the overtime pay for these guys. On Monday they get all the Sat /Sun trash
and after labor day that's when most people go to the beach anyway on Sat/Sun.
I'm thinking if you attack the hole your going to dig from the beach side , when you dig a scoop you could dump it on the ocean side of where your digging and create a little sand dam for yourself. Which
may help you keep some of the water out and make it a little easier for you.
CMBB

 

[Cape May Beach Bum]

bum,
same thing on this beach. "Sweeper" early in the morning. Do those things stop after labor Day? Is there a time during the year that they wouldn't show up?
After some reflection, I'm liking the bobcat idea. I've seen cars swallowed at Daytona, would we have to worry about that with a track machine?

grizzly bare

GB
Like deepsix said, minus low tide will really help. The track type bobcats are pretty stable. Just make sure if you rent it you take out all the insurance.
The beach cleaners where I go I believe clean for awhile after labor day. But normally on Mondays, as the city tries to cut out the overtime pay for these guys. On Monday they get all the Sat /Sun trash
and after labor day that's when most people go to the beach anyway on Sat/Sun.
I'm thinking if you attack the hole your going to dig from the beach side , when you dig a scoop you could dump it on the ocean side of where your digging and create a little sand dam for yourself. Which
may help you keep some of the water out and make it a little easier for you.
CMBB

GB,
OK guys I'm re-thinking this project. A bobcat (track type) with a 68" scoop type bucket on the front has a lifting capacity of 1900 pounds (35 % of tip over). Now wet sand has a weight of approx 120/130 pounds per cubic foot. There are 27 cubic feet in a cubic yard , so even if the bucket would hold a cubic yard of sand your talking about a weight of 3240 pounds per bucket, which would greatly over load the machine. (note the machine tips over at 5400 pounds) This means you can probably only get about 2/3 of a yard per bucket scoop. If you need to go down 5 feet, you'll need to start probably 10 or 15 feet back from your target area and almost dig a ramp down 5 feet on an angle to get where you need to be. I may be wrong (because I have never done this) but it would seem to me the sand is going to be caving in on you from all sides. I really think you need a BIG machine to pull this off. Rentals of bobcats not including delivery runs $200/$260 per day, depending on what part of the country your in and how far they have to go to deliver it. (unless of course you have your own trailer).
Keep us posted
CMBB

 

[deepsix47]

The Back Hoe we had lined up was on a good sized tractor and doubled as a front end loader. The owner was involved and was a licensed contractor with a great deal of experience. He was sure there was going to be no problem. Thats all I can tell you about it as like I said, we never did actually do it.
Deepsix

 

[Cape May Beach Bum]

The Back Hoe we had lined up was on a good sized tractor and doubled as a front end loader. The owner was involved and was a licensed contractor with a great deal of experience. He was sure there was going to be no problem. Thats all I can tell you about it as like I said, we never did actually do it.
Deepsix

Deepsix,
I think your correct using a back hoe. You can put it in one place and just dig. My concern was with the bobcat, because your moving back and forth. All I could visualize is getting in 5 feet deep and having the sand bury the bobcat or 1/2 of a bobcat anyway. I'm like you. thinking about it ,but I have never actually tried it.
CMBB

 

[deepsix47]

The Back Hoe we had lined up was on a good sized tractor and doubled as a front end loader. The owner was involved and was a licensed contractor with a great deal of experience. He was sure there was going to be no problem. Thats all I can tell you about it as like I said, we never did actually do it.
Deepsix

Deepsix,
I think your correct using a back hoe. You can put it in one place and just dig. My concern was with the bobcat, because your moving back and forth. All I could visualize is getting in 5 feet deep and having the sand bury the bobcat or 1/2 of a bobcat anyway. I'm like you. thinking about it ,but I have never actually tried it.
CMBB

LOL....that would be comical. A few years from now some guy is walking along with his MD and gets this MONSTER HIT in the surfline. Heart begins pounding, thoughts run wild, others enlisted for the dig, then suddenly the illusive treasure is finally brought into view. SURPRISE!!!! Kinda like the Volkswagon buried near Sebastian Inlet or the numerous engine blocks along the beaches. What do you do when you uncover them? Rebury them of course so someone else gets to pay their dues.
Deepsix

 

[spez401]

I grew up on a farm, and started driving machines when i was around 10. You can rent the bobcat with the "backhoe attachment". It'll cost you a little extra, (I can get that setup here for about 300 for the weekend)but may be the way to go. They are fairly easy to drive, and pretty easy to get the hang of.

The Bobcat 753 (or larger) will run the attachment (which is usually available where you rent the machine). The one i grew up driving would dig to 11' down, and had a total of about 15' reach if i recall. You don't need to move the machine. You pull up to the spot, drop the stabalizers and start digging. I also remember seeing a portable Backhoe that attached to the trailer hitch of a regular truck. You might be able to rent one of them. here's the link(http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_531_531).

The problem with these machines (bobcat, etc) is that they are small. they can do the big jobs, but it just takes a LOT longer than with a big machine. Time seems to be of the essence in your situation, so if a bigger machine is available, and you can get it to the spot, that's probably your best bet. If on the other hand you need to do it surreptitiously, the giant YELLOW machine in the surfline is kinda like a flashing beacon. If the target isn't too deep, driving in with a 4X4 with the hoe attached is probably the best bet.

A good plan of attack is your best bet. Plan it and plan it well, down to how to get there, etc.

good luck... and keep us informed