DOES ANYONE POLICE LARGE COMPETITION HUNTS FOR FAIRNESS ?

[scrounger d detector collector]

older hunter new to t net. getting back into treasure hunyting after having to pay big attention to business matters.now semi retired.its been quite a while since i attended any competition or salted hunts. i thought the concept of these hunts was great fun. prob becuz the first club i was in had almost all seniors and i could run circles around them dig up evrything in sight and make out like a bandit.later i went to a few regional hunts and did poorly. however one day as i was sitting on the sidelines after a futile attempt at speed hunting.an ol timer said "dont feel too bad about it son,those fellas who always win are partner hunting" what is that? i asked "well just sit out this next hunt and ill show you.fine im not doin jack anyway.mens hunt i have 54 tokens in 20 min and winner has 103. now he says watch them 2 fellas that drove in from x. matching windbreakers helped.sure enough toward the end of the hunt one of the two headed for the farthest corner of the field.he knelt to dig and i couldnt tell anything was wrong.now my guide said watch his friend.i guarntee he will go to the exact same place on the field.sure enough just before the hunt ended windbreaker guy b headed to the farthest corner and seemed to be kneeling in the same area as windbreaker a had.i still did not get it.my guide said u are dense."both them fellers are very fast hunters u did good but u will never beat them because either by watch sync or pre arranged hand signals windbreaker a plants his entire pouch of tokens for windbreaker b to find just before the bell.sure enough windbreaker b is the winner.i nearly fainted. i was told almost everyone knows they cheat but is too timid to call them on it .huh what?? 300 dollar first prize on the line and no one wants to make waves dont tell anyone i told you.yeah right!!! another regional hunt.hey newbie.!!lets play a trick on old joe.club members know old joe stump holes[numerous targets in one hole] for himself or cohort to find later.members plant targets. follow joe and try to see if he puts multiple silver in one hole.he wont suspect you.finally a national hunt.its raining im under a tent flap edge counting my silver finding i found just about enuf to cover entry fee.all the sudden i hear voices.its obvious they cant see me.whispering.hey, xxxx ,dont forget to rub some mud on those tokens...what? they gotta look dug!!! oh of course .right did u tell all the other guys. yeah u were the last. i peek under canvas to get a fix on what they were wearing to recognize later.there they are at the prize award ceremony winning the 2 biggest prizes.hmmm i alone know that the winning tokens for the big prizes were never planted.they were in the pockets of the so called winners all the time.and although metal detector dealers are often big enthusiasts with great skill.another pattern xxx deals bounty hunter he wins a bh machine.xxx deals minelab he wins a minelab.hmmmm.more shenanigans ?probably.in short i have waited quite a few years to voice this.salted hunts are kinda like a giant raffle or casino game but the twist is skill matters.soo fun to hunt and dream of winning a new detector or big jar of silver coins..gold coin etc that u prob arent gonna find very often in reg hunts.and usually if good enuf at least find to cover entry fee. now im back .i think salted hunts can be great fun if honest.has anyone seen these issues addressed before? has anything changed.i realize in small hunts this would be impossible to police. but the larger venues need some accountability.like lotteries have.nationally recognized independent judging.i hate to say this but all first hand experiance.i want to comp hunt and do salted hunts but want to make sure i have a level chance to win.sorry so long.really anxious for answers or what others may have experianced.its sad to see something so fun ruined.but where moneys involved seems some willalways cheat.maybe this aint the right forum to post this .but trying

 

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[EDDE]

great post and welcome aboard we like folks like you.............
to put it in perspective
they should put a person on a ladder at the 4 corners with a video camera
IF its on the up and up.....
ive been invited to join a few clubs and salted hunts arent really my thing but sounds like a blast if its your thing go for it
i mulled it over in my head for a bit and always kind of went "ahhhhhhhhhhhh,not sure"
kind of like if im not sure about something i wont do it because i dont know
"the scam" so to speak
again great posting

 

[LadyDigger]

Hi Scounger,

Thank you for the insight of your experiences on hunts. I have heard stories of "some" not playing "fair", but have not been on any hunt of sorts. Hubby and I newbies to the "Art of Detecting" (only a year) ....we have considered finding places to hunt with others.

We will go on our first hunt the end of April in Surry Co, VA...I am so excited!!! We have approx 28 folks and a few kids going...camping out for 3 glorious days in the wilderness

But if we should ever go on a big hunt...I am going to keep my ears/eyes open. I will always trust, until that person gives me reason not too!

HH,
Annmarie

 

[tinpan]

Thanks for your Post,I have made my mind up and of heard of this sort of tatics used before.In Australia we call hunts of this type "SPIKES" and i,m never going to any ever.

tinpan

 

[cryptodave]

The hunts are not that bad, really. Yes, there are some jerk offs that cheat. They are usually the same ass hats that hunt illegally. There are people who always need an edge or need to cheat to win.
I don't believe that anyone will be that way at the hunt coming up in Pipsico, but since I am unofficially in charge of the prizes, I am going to do things so that no cheating can be involved to win.

 

[stoney56]

Scrounger, that's a fair question. I do 4-6 a year and have done so for about 10 years.
The one's I've gone to have asked for volunteers to help bury the coins and have gridded off the field in such a way that the coins are equally distributed throughout. It's possible that a person could pocket some of the silver and not bury it however I've never seen that happen. Only the hunt master touches the tokens for prizes and buries them at a separate time while no one else is watching. The hunt master also does not participate in the hunt except to watch and make sure the holes are refilled and the rules pertaining to digging tools are used, etc. Each token is numbered for a prize so there is no pooling of tokens possible. Seeded hunts aren't for everyone but I think that a person should at least try one for the fun and comradare as well as getting together with other MDers.

 

[EDDE]

agreed

 

[kydave]

Been to a lot of seeded hunts. The hardest to catch are people who have a secret buddy on the field who are willing to dig one up and put five back in the hole right in front of you for you to dig. When the prize money gets big they will try anything to get travel expenses back!

 

[JohninCT]

Just went to a Northern New England hunt this Sunday which was not large, maybe 60 hunters, where the prizes to be given out, were printed on flyer as $6000 + 10 caches from $50-$999. Well only 4 or 5 tokens were dug up for the caches and only those 4 or 5 caches were given away. The others were kept by the person putting the hunt on, supposedly for next years hunt. Never saw a hunt run so loosely. Just pay your entry fee, and they take your name down, no badges or assigned numbers to hunters, no signing wavers or anything. I have been to many hunts over the last 35 years, and never seen the prizes held back from not finding the tokens. I do think the tokens were probably buried, but still it shouldn't matter if found or not, as the prize caches were supposedly to be part of the awarded prizes. So much for hunts that are run poorly also. This hunt is supposed to have a new person running it next year. I talked to him and I believe it will change.

 

[teverly]

Well i dont know who told the story about the hunter planting his whole pouch for a person to win.
I have went to organized hunts for many years and watched the competition hunts.1st only a certain amount of tokens are planted and it does no good for someone to give there tokens to anyone else as they usually only give prizes to the 1st thru 5th place winners.So replanting what you have found for someone else is a waste of time.
Also the hunts i went to the hunters were very closely monitored and there were counters and observers on the field at all times.Each day new targets were planted and they were usually new pennies painted a different color for each day.The Hunters were not informed of the color of the pennies until they showed up at the hunt.
Also a lot of the guys and gals that hunt competition practice and practice.And by your own admission you have been out of hunting for a while.I have seen times when guys would double someone elses totals and no one thought they were cheating.
I guess it all comes down to who is running the hunt.
So please dont judge all hunts by one bad experience.You definately want hunts that have been around for a couple years,you should have to registar,and the rules of awarding prizes ect should be spelled out b4 the hunts.And if you have any questions ask....

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

as i said its been years since i did this.the hunts i describe were all back in the early 90's. and to clarify.the speed hunting partner hunters and the stump holer were at small local hunts. however the whispered conversation about rubbing mud on tokens was at a national hunt. FMDAC sponsored. this means many of the advertised prizes were never given away. and the biggest prize tokens were not avil to find,as they had never even been planted.of course all the prizes were awarded. but they went to ringers who had the token in their pocket before the hunt started. as for speed hunting now.no thankee..ive gained 10 years plus and about 60 lbs.just was thinkin i salted hunt might be nice again .IF I COULD BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN IT WAS HONEST

 

[Mental Granny]

The ones we go to are fair the tokens are planted by one person when no one is around.
At the one hunt our club put on years ago, there was one big mess up with a hunt field being too trashy to find the real truck key that was planted, sooooo what we did was everyone that had paid to be in the main hunt put the badbes in a box then a little kid pulled one out, evryone loved it,------except for the winner---before he left to come to hunt he told girl friend she could set a date if he won the truck
Guess what he called her after the pic taking and told her to set the date. It was fun!!

 

[Noodle]

I really didn't think folks took MDing that serious! Wow! At the Bayou Hunt coming up in April, every hunter will be scratching and digging equally. What they find, they keep. No seeding except for special prizes that will number 1-2-3. I will plant those personally next weekend so they have time to weather, and when they're found, they will be easily recognized. I have never been to a competitive hunt, though, and it doesn't sound like I could afford one -- especially if they give away TRUCKS! This upcoming hunt is for old friends and new ones to get together in a new spot. They're going to EAT up their entry fees and everyone will haul home some treats. Three will be a little luckier, but IT AIN'T GONNA BE NO TRUCK! 8)

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

Yes i read about this hunt and it sounds great. t net people seem cool and friendly.plus the fact that its a group hunt and not competative sound good. fun.

 

[Bridge End Farm]

well I am sure some cheat but more don't I assure you. The club I am in has more of a problem of everyone and thier brother showing up for the annual silver hunt. We have non seeded hunts monthly and pay 4 dollars each to swing at the location. The money goes to buying silver for the annual hunt. Many don't attend any of the monthly hunts and only show up for the annual hunt to collect the silver the rest of us have paid all year to have planted. Still life is too short to worrry about little things,

 

[Mental Granny]

well I am sure some cheat but more don't I assure you. The club I am in has more of a problem of everyone and thier brother showing up for the annual silver hunt. We have non seeded hunts monthly and pay 4 dollars each to swing at the location. The money goes to buying silver for the annual hunt. Many don't attend any of the monthly hunts and only show up for the annual hunt to collect the silver the rest of us have paid all year to have planted. Still life is too short to worrry about little things,

Since you get to keep anything found at the monthly hunt yourself, when the annual hunt comes around...maybe charge $40 @ person if you get that much silver. It'll cover the cost of the silver and that way you have the money for next year's. Just a thought.

 

[teverly]

as i said its been years since i did this.the hunts i describe were all back in the early 90's. and to clarify.the speed hunting partner hunters and the stump holer were at small local hunts. however the whispered conversation about rubbing mud on tokens was at a national hunt. FMDAC sponsored. this means many of the advertised prizes were never given away. and the biggest prize tokens were not avil to find,as they had never even been planted.of course all the prizes were awarded. but they went to ringers who had the token in their pocket before the hunt started. as for speed hunting now.no thankee..ive gained 10 years plus and about 60 lbs.just was thinkin i salted hunt might be nice again .IF I COULD BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN IT WAS HONEST

Well unless you have absolute evidence that this was the case i would not be making acusations based on hearsay.
I attended many hunts during the 90s that were put on by individuals that are invoved with FMDAC and they are all very decent people who do not condone or tolerate cheating.
Some people go to these hunts thinking they will come away with a bunch of stuff just because it is a big hunt and when they dont, they get upset and think they have been cheated somehow.
I have even buried tokens for hunt masters when i was not hunting,,,,and believe me even if your the guy that plants them you can not remember where they are..most of the hunts i planted for there were usually upwards of 20+ tokens per hunt and most of the time the prizes were awarded by random drawing after the hunt to prevent anyone from cheating.

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

well I am sure some cheat but more don't I assure you. The club I am in has more of a problem of everyone and thier brother showing up for the annual silver hunt. We have non seeded hunts monthly and pay 4 dollars each to swing at the location. The money goes to buying silver for the annual hunt. Many don't attend any of the monthly hunts and only show up for the annual hunt to collect the silver the rest of us have paid all year to have planted. Still life is too short to worrry about little things,........that might change w silver at 17.50 plus

 

[warsawdaddy]

well I am sure some cheat but more don't I assure you. The club I am in has more of a problem of everyone and thier brother showing up for the annual silver hunt. We have non seeded hunts monthly and pay 4 dollars each to swing at the location. The money goes to buying silver for the annual hunt. Many don't attend any of the monthly hunts and only show up for the annual hunt to collect the silver the rest of us have paid all year to have planted. Still life is too short to worrry about little things,

I would think that the club would install a rule that to participate in the 'annual' hunt,you must have attended at least x number of monthly mtgs.

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

as i said its been years since i did this.the hunts i describe were all back in the early 90's. and to clarify.the speed hunting partner hunters and the stump holer were at small local hunts. however the whispered conversation about rubbing mud on tokens was at a national hunt. FMDAC sponsored. this means many of the advertised prizes were never given away. and the biggest prize tokens were not avil to find,as they had never even been planted.of course all the prizes were awarded. but they went to ringers who had the token in their pocket before the hunt started. as for speed hunting now.no thankee..ive gained 10 years plus and about 60 lbs.just was thinkin i salted hunt might be nice again .IF I COULD BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN IT WAS HONEST

Well unless you have absolute evidence that this was the case i would not be making acusations based on hearsay.
I attended many hunts during the 90s that were put on by individuals that are invoved with FMDAC and they are all very decent people who do not condone or tolerate cheating.
Some people go to these hunts thinking they will come away with a bunch of stuff just because it is a big hunt and when they dont, they get upset and think they have been cheated somehow.
I have even buried tokens for hunt masters when i was not hunting,,,,and believe me even if your the guy that plants them you can not remember where they are..most of the hunts i planted for there were usually upwards of 20+ tokens per hunt and most of the time the prizes were awarded by random drawing after the hunt to prevent anyone from cheating.

thanks for your reply but im not sure you understand correctly.we are talking about the sponsors of the hunt.dishonesty at the sponsor level.top prize tokens never buried by huntmaster or anyone else.winning tokens simply handed [when no one around] to[buddies] shills or ringers who really win nothing.they show token with mud rubbed on it to make it look like it was dug.then they accept prize at winners ceremony only to give it back later.the whole point here is hunt promoters making money or much more than advertised.if a promoter says. HIGH PRIZES,WIN A DETECTOR.LARGE JAR OF SILVER COINS ,GOLD COIN OR EVEN A VEHICLE IN A LARGE HUNT. and then the tokens for all the top prizes are won by his buddies.whom he gives a few bucks each for helping in the scam. 100s of eager treasure hunters pay 40 to 100 dollar entry fee trying to win the top prizes.and AGAIN the top prizes are given away.except they were never really won.ALSO.this was a long time ago.i am not trying to ruin this idea of planted hunts. i find it very exciting.i would like to go to some larger hunts if i could be sure the larger prizes are actually avail to win. sure metal hunters like to get together and hunt.but , take away the big prizes and how many would drive far take a room and other expenses.just to swing the loop for some scattered silver,and hope to cover entry fee.or make 20,30 bucks toward the other expenses if ur really fast.no the lure is the big prizes.

and this is not HERESAY. i was at this hunt in person and heard aforementioned disscussion.WITH MY OWN EARS!!! u can believe me or not.if anyone can make another meaning from the quotes i said in orig post let me know.yes, this was a FMDAC sponsored hunt. i never complained ,i just stopped going. i have heard only good things about FMDAC in the past.perhaps they did not know.perhaps some of the prize donors were allowed to bury their own tokens independently of the huntmaster.only i know these tokens were never buried.there were too many perhapses to bring any accusations then.

also,even if the prizes are scrambled,it dont matter if all are shills.no one really win anything.as i recall the top 8 prizes were scrambled.this is not sour grapes.i found enough silver to cover entry fee.and a couple tokens for smaller prizes.incl a GATOR digger i still use.but when compared to my travel and hotel expenses.dont measure up.

IN CONCLUSION....my whole point here is i would like to attend some larger hunts w chance of big prize.again much more fun diggin those smalls hoping against hope u might find the big prize. as the supply of old silver and other coins remaining to be found continues to dwindle,i believe the MDing community wants more of this type of hunt .but deserves to be FAIR. is good for MDing as a whole,and exciting. best way is to ask questions beforehand.we deserve to be sure if we really have a chance at the big prizes.