electrolysis advice

[Stegner]

I've read a lot on the forum on electrolysis - maybe I'm missing something.....
Cleaning a large square nail. Started with 7V setup but it took a loooooong time for only minor results. Now switching to a 15V setup - seems to take a looooong time with little to show for it yet.
I have salt in the water. From my pic and/or my description am I doing anything wrong, or can I do anything to accelerate? How long should it take for the cleaning of an item like this?

 

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[Mr.T]

Should be bubbling like crazy. You may not be getting a good connection on the nail- scrape back to bear metal. Aquachigger has a great video on youtube if you are unsure.
Kinda looks as if you have attached both wire to the positive? If so it should be a negative to the relic, and positive to the sacrificial metal. Separate wires!. 11 volts should be plenty, I use 9. You should see it bubble immediately when you switch on. If you are using an Automatic battery charger that could be the problem also. The newer types wont work, just use an old phone charger.

 

[sckimbershot]

attach 1 lead to positive (sacrificial metal) and then use 2 negative leads--one for metal and the other for item being cleaned. make sure all metals do not touch one another--place them in a glass/plastic container. add solution (i use water and baking soda). when all set--plug power source in and clean away.

i was using a trickle charger but now use a cell phone charger (low volt).

 

[villagenut]

Using salt as your electrolyte can be dangerous because of chlorine gas being given off. Of course you got to be careful with baking soda as well. Use baking soda in your tank of water and try getting a better connection on the rusty nail as Mr.T suggested. Also try using stainless steel for your sacrificial anode. The allen wrench may not work as well, being hardened steel. Not sure on that thought, because I have not tried such material before...I just know that stainless is best. Happy bubbles to you

Check this link out for the dangers associated with salt electrolyte solution.

How To Make Electrolyte

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Using salt as your electrolyte can be dangerous because of chlorine gas being given off. Of course you got to be careful with baking soda as well. Use baking soda in your tank of water and try getting a better connection on the rusty nail as Mr.T suggested. Also try using stainless steel for your sacrificial anode. The allen wrench may not work as well, being hardened steel. Not sure on that thought, because I have not tried such material before...I just know that stainless is best. Happy bubbles to you

Check this link out for the dangers associated with salt electrolyte solution.

How To Make Electrolyte

NO...you do NOT want to use stainless. You end up with water that has hexavalent chromium in it.....really bad stuff. Don't even want it in the environment. Remember the movie with Julia Roberts (true story), where she played the lawyer's assistant? The material that caused all the problems was hexavalent chromium. Don't use stainless...use plain old iron. A piece of rebar works good. Or another large nail...or an unplated bolt.
And, the best material as an electrolyte is washing soda (sodium carbonate). You can get it at most grocery stores.
Jim

 

[Stegner]

Kinda looks as if you have attached both wire to the positive? If so it should be a negative to the relic, and positive to the sacrificial metal. Separate wires!

I wires are separated - this particular charger made it difficult to separate the wires with a plastic sheath so I ended up wrapping the separated bare wire with electrical tape.

I think the advice around scraping down to bare metal is where I'm falling short - easy fix. Also, I will try to change to a piece of rebar or something , not hardened steel, for my sacrificial metal.

Also, thanks all for the advice on safety-related issues. Much appreciated.

 

[dustywallen]

Read some of my earlier post.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Hopefully you realize that you have the worst type of item to clean with electrolysis. Iron turns to rust. Tiny iron items like nails are usually 90% rust in the original shape of the nail.

 

[villagenut]

NO...you do NOT want to use stainless. You end up with water that has hexavalent chromium in it.....really bad stuff. Don't even want it in the environment. Remember the movie with Julia Roberts (true story), where she played the lawyer's assistant? The material that caused all the problems was hexavalent chromium. Don't use stainless...use plain old iron. A piece of rebar works good. Or another large nail...or an unplated bolt.
And, the best material as an electrolyte is washing soda (sodium carbonate). You can get it at most grocery stores.
Jim

Well said Jim, yes washing soda is a better electrolyte than baking soda but I have not noticed any significant improvement in using one or the other.The real benefit of baking soda(sodium bi-carbonate) is that we all usually have a box somewhere in the house.It is more of a household usage item than Washing soda...of course my wife gets mad when she looks for her soda and can't find it because I have used it.
You also bring out an excellent point on the stainless steel anode. Yes it can be dangerous to you and the environment to use it as your anode, but it is a good choice if you are not doing any large scale electrolytic reduction set up. I think that most of us are not cleaning cannons or anchors so in context, it is safe for a tank of few artifacts. The post here was concerning a single nail. With any electrolysis set-up, it is important to have proper ventilation, use gloves and never put your face over the tank and breath in the bubblous gasses, whatever the anode used. A SMALL SETUP should be fine with Stainless under thopse conditions and what little harmful gas generated is far less caustic than what comes out our tailpipe or from cigarette smoke for that matter. But again, thanks for bring the danger of it to our attention.

Anode - Sacrificial Positive Electrode

 

[Stegner]

I agree this nail is 4" long and a half inch thick- more like a small spike, so I thought it was worth cleaning.

 

[villagenut]

I agree this nail is 4" long and a half inch thick- more like a small spike, so I thought it was worth cleaning.

Sure it is worth cleaning, but be prepared to not have such a large spike when its done.The corrosive effects of iron and ground minerals often exaggerate the rusted artifact, especially nails. Often what we think is a large spike may just be a big square nail that has layers of rust which is like a heavy coat on a skinny person. But yes, I would clean it up too...that is if my wife has any baking soda left.

 

[villagenut]

I also noticed that your alligator clip is attached to the sacrificial anode and that where it is clipped on, is under the water. Doing this will result in possibly ruining your alligator clip as it is submerged in the electrolyte where it too will become "sacrificed". So if you change to a different material for the anode, try finding one that will have a portion stick out of the water and clip on it there where it is safe from being compromised from the process.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Well said Jim, yes washing soda is a better electrolyte than baking soda but I have not noticed any significant improvement in using one or the other.The real benefit of baking soda(sodium bi-carbonate) is that we all usually have a box somewhere in the house.It is more of a household usage item than Washing soda...of course my wife gets mad when she looks for her soda and can't find it because I have used it.
You also bring out an excellent point on the stainless steel anode. Yes it can be dangerous to you and the environment to use it as your anode, but it is a good choice if you are not doing any large scale electrolytic reduction set up. I think that most of us are not cleaning cannons or anchors so in context, it is safe for a tank of few artifacts. The post here was concerning a single nail. With any electrolysis set-up, it is important to have proper ventilation, use gloves and never put your face over the tank and breath in the bubblous gasses, whatever the anode used. A SMALL SETUP should be fine with Stainless under thopse conditions and what little harmful gas generated is far less caustic than what comes out our tailpipe or from cigarette smoke for that matter. But again, thanks for bring the danger of it to our attention.

Anode - Sacrificial Positive Electrode

You have to keep in mind that somebody that is unknowing may not understand it's OK ONLY in a small setup.(though imho there's no reason at all to use it when there is lots of plain iron out there).
Jim

 

[pa plateau hiker]

I also noticed that your alligator clip is attached to the sacrificial anode and that where it is clipped on, is under the water. Doing this will result in possibly ruining your alligator clip as it is submerged in the electrolyte where it too will become "sacrificed". So if you change to a different material for the anode, try finding one that will have a portion stick out of the water and clip on it there where it is safe from being compromised from the process.

Right,villagenut. Or, what I do is wrap a copper wire around the clip, keeping it above the water and wrap the other end around the relic being cleaned. The copper wire will eventually be eaten away, but can be replace with another.

 

[NHBandit]

Without getting into the whole controversy over using Stainless you can find dirt cheap Stainless silverware for pennies at most any flea market, garage sale, etc and a spoon with the handle end bent to hang on the edge of your container with the "bowl" of the spoon in the water gives you a good place well out of the solution to clip your positive lead to. I use a 12 volt transformer from an old HO slot car set that I paid next to nothing for at a garage sale as the power source. With that said I prefer a 2-3 day soak in a molasses & water solution for rusty steel & iron. Less destructive, less harmful to the environment & dosn't require anything other than a 5 gallon bucket, a couple jars of molasses & some warm water. These antique railroad lanterns were completely covered in a coating of surface rust before the molasses soak. Obviously nothing will restore metal that is heavily pitted.

 

[woodrat]

I use a battery charger , the graphite from a carpenters pencil, and washing soda it seems to be a pretty good setup for me

 

[Davers]

NO...you do NOT want to use stainless. You end up with water that has hexavalent chromium in it.....really bad stuff. Don't even want it in the environment. Remember the movie with Julia Roberts (true story), where she played the lawyer's assistant? The material that caused all the problems was hexavalent chromium. Don't use stainless...use plain old iron. A piece of rebar works good. Or another large nail...or an unplated bolt.
And, the best material as an electrolyte is washing soda (sodium carbonate). You can get it at most grocery stores.
Jim

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