Eletrolysis water getting hot

[Vladio]

This is my first try. I'm using a 13.8 volt power supply that's out of a 1980's retail car radio display. 10-15 amps. I'm trying to clean a horse shoe. The waters getting hot as is the power supply. Just wondering if this is normal.

 

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[Zodiacdiverdave]

I think that maybe the amperage is too high. I use 2 amps on a cannonball, lower amps and a longer soak is better the a short soak and high amperage.
ZDD

 

[Vladio]

I think that maybe the amperage is too high. I use 2 amps on a cannonball, lower amps and a longer soak is better the a short soak and high amperage.
ZDD

Okay, thanks for the input. I set up a small 12v fan on the back of the power supply and its running cool but if lower amps is better ill find another power source.

What would be a minimum amount of amps that would work? I have a ton of small wall-mount supplies for various electronics. I know I have one or two 12v - 1 amp power supplies... Wonder if those would do better or not as good?

Thanks again,
joe

 

[Shortstack]

This is my first try. I'm using a 13.8 volt power supply that's out of a 1980's retail car radio display. 10-15 amps. I'm trying to clean a horse shoe. The waters getting hot as is the power supply. Just wondering if this is normal.

With those specs, you're putting 138 to 207 watts of power to use. The richer the electrolisis mix, the better the current flow through the fluid, so the amp draw giving the lower power rating. But, if you're a little thin on the mix, the current draw goes up and gives the higher power rating. Electrical energy is turned into thermal energy.

Use one of those small converters with around 600 milliamps and it should work just fine. Just takes more time. A slow "cleaning" of the objects allows one to monitor the results and not let the "cleaning" go too far. You wouldn't want to clean an old, worn penny so long as to remove the date. I've had to pull an old Indian Head penny early to keep enough detail in place to be able to read the date and mint mark.

 

[Vladio]

With those specs, you're putting 138 to 207 watts of power to use. The richer the electrolisis mix, the better the current flow through the fluid, so the amp draw giving the lower power rating. But, if you're a little thin on the mix, the current draw goes up and gives the higher power rating. Electrical energy is turned into thermal energy.

Use one of those small converters with around 600 milliamps and it should work just fine. Just takes more time. A slow "cleaning" of the objects allows one to monitor the results and not let the "cleaning" go too far. You wouldn't want to clean an old, worn penny so long as to remove the date. I've had to pull an old Indian Head penny early to keep enough detail in place to be able to read the date and mint mark.

Thanks for the advice. I keep all those "wall adapters" from everything the boys had and destroyed. I found one that's 12v 1.5 amp down to 4.5v 300 ma. Ill experiment next week when we get back from camping. I did do an old file I found that was heavily rusted. It worked absolutely fine. Not too bad for a 200+ year old tool.

 

[AUVnav]

The posters are correct, that voltage/amperage is way to high.

In electrolysis, you should notice only a few bubbles now and then.
Remember, you are losing material, so the slow/steady approach is far better for artefacts.
With artefacts, I have found it is better to have multiple anodes surrounding it, scrap stainless steel works very well...

For the file, no problem, but that is still far too much, the heat is the first sign...resistance is generating heat...

The smaller poer supplies you mention may work better, but keep checking the heat, they really werent set up for the resistance.

A variable switch (pot) may help as well, just 'tune' the current until you just start seeing bubbles. This way, your system can be used effectively on a variety of artefacts, from smaller to larger.

Baking soda works well as an electolyte in the solution instead of salt.

Good luck.

 

[Shortstack]

The posters are correct, that voltage/amperage is way to high.

In electrolysis, you should notice only a few bubbles now and then.
Remember, you are losing material, so the slow/steady approach is far better for artefacts.
With artefacts, I have found it is better to have multiple anodes surrounding it, scrap stainless steel works very well...

For the file, no problem, but that is still far too much, the heat is the first sign...resistance is generating heat...

The smaller poer supplies you mention may work better, but keep checking the heat, they really werent set up for the resistance.

A variable switch (pot) may help as well, just 'tune' the current until you just start seeing bubbles. This way, your system can be used effectively on a variety of artefacts, from smaller to larger.

Baking soda works well as an electolyte in the solution instead of salt.

Good luck.

I use some cheap stainless steel spoons for anodes and baking powder is very good for the mix. I think the "richer" version of soda......the Arm & Hammer Super Soda clothes washing powder is best. I'll be using that to clean up some old cast iron skillets soon.

 

[Vladio]

I read or head somewhere not to use stainless. Something about toxic fumes.

 

[AUVnav]

The stainless is anode, so it 'collects' electrons.
The artefact will 'lose' the material. Whatever the artefact is made of, or the oxidation component, will either go to the stainless as the sludge, or in solution. I would gather the solution could be harmful...

For small ops, cheap stainless spoons may be okay, I find that they tend to be much more irritating in decomp than they are worth. A local scrap metal dealer will have chucks of stainless, which tends to be much higher quality, replaced less, and are also very cheap.

With a slow process, there should not be a huge volume of gasses released.

Baking soda is chemically known as sodium bicarbonate with the chemical formula NaHCO3. It is composed of sodium, hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen.

The gasses that are released during electrolysis are pure hydrogen, and pure oxygen. So perhaps you would want this to be in a well ventilated area.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

I want you to try this, it will amaze you. Take your file and put it in a small plastic container. Add Apple cider vinigar to cover it. Place a lid on the container and check on it in a month. knock off the loose rust and rinse it with water. If it still needs more soaking place it back in the container and maybe add some more vinigar, It will remove all rust from your file or any other iron find. then preserve with wax, paint or oil. If you have finds from the salt water they will require electrolysis but this method works great and it is a no fuss way to clean rusted iron objects found on land.
ZDD

 

[Shortstack]

I want you to try this, it will amaze you. Take your file and put it in a small plastic container. Add Apple cider vinigar to cover it. Place a lid on the container and check on it in a month. knock off the loose rust and rinse it with water. If it still needs more soaking place it back in the container and maybe add some more vinigar, It will remove all rust from your file or any other iron find. then preserve with wax, paint or oil. If you have finds from the salt water they will require electrolysis but this method works great and it is a no fuss way to clean rusted iron objects found on land.
ZDD

This is an excellent tip. I used clear, regular vinegar to recycle an old butcher knife. Put it tip down into a quart mason jar and filled the jar up to just below the wooden handle. The vinegar desolved the rust from the blade like magic in just a few days.

Another way to desolve rust is by using agricultural molasses. I found this tip on YouTube that is used by many backyard auto restorers. Some of the vids show those guys using even large containers to soak whole fenders and doors and when the deal is done, all that's required is to hose off the sludge with a garden hose. If there is old paint on the metal article, the molasses soak will not remove it........just the rust on the bare metal areas. It'll even get into the body seams and melt out the rust from there so that fresh undercoatings can be used.

The reason I mentioned the car parts soaking is to illustrate that large artifacts can be de-rusted using this technique. The agricultural molasses can be found at farm & ranch supply stores where it's sold for mixing with feed grains and such. The formula is one part molasses to ten parts water. Go to YouTube and do a search for "how-to derust metal with molasses" and you'll find the vids. The great thing about this method is that if you're needing to clean up a seriously rusted gun or cannon ball or even a cannon, the molasses method is SAFE. No flamable fumes and no electrical circuitry. Just cover the container so that no flies and other bugs can get to the mixture. That molasses will bring them in if you don't cover the stuff. Depending on the size of the article you're cleaning, the process could take up to a month or more. Another good thing is this method will not remove any paint and patina from the piece.....just the rust, and leaving the good metal and old paint on any surfaces.

 

[Davers]

IMO ,I would AVOID HEATING THE WATER ,ON PURPOSE OR NOT WHEN USING TRUE STAINLESS STEEL AS YOUR ANODE, I HAVE READ THAT HEAT IS WHAT BRINGS OUT THE TOXINS WHEN USING STAINLESS.

 

[RCGoodin]

I want you to try this, it will amaze you. Take your file and put it in a small plastic container. Add Apple cider vinigar to cover it. Place a lid on the container and check on it in a month. knock off the loose rust and rinse it with water. If it still needs more soaking place it back in the container and maybe add some more vinigar, It will remove all rust from your file or any other iron find. then preserve with wax, paint or oil. If you have finds from the salt water they will require electrolysis but this method works great and it is a no fuss way to clean rusted iron objects found on land.
ZDD

Zodiac, will this work with a bunch of clad coins?