Fast or Deep?

[Iffy Signals]

Hey all, just catching up on some of these posts and have a question.. seems like most like to use the fast as a base program. Why is that? I have used deep for a couple customs and wanted to know what benefit fast has as the base. Thx

If you have seen any of my videos on youtube or here i am mostly in the woods hunting cella holes.

Thx Mike.

 

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[vferrari]

Deep uses signal processing filters from ver 2 of the Deus software and was added back in with the version 4 update. Version 2 filters tend to enable a more audible signal for deep targets at the expense of more chatter and scratchy false signals. It was still popular enough with early Deus users (like Gary Blackwell) that XP decided to bring it back in the form of the Deep pre-set program. Deep (like Deus fast described below) does have silencer off and a good reactivity setting of 2, but it also has Discrimination set only at 5.5 which is slightly below what XP recommends as the minimum discrimination (6) at which the horseshoe depth and ferrous/non-ferrous indicator reliably operates. If you look at all the preset programs you will notice that other than Deep, Hot, and Gold Field (which does not use traditional discrimination) the default discrimination setting is 6 or higher. This is no accident. Gary Blackwell is not a fan of using discrimination and "Deep" and "Hot" are his programs that are now included on the Deus since ver 4 was released by XP (Gary now works for XP).

Deus fast is one of the most popular "base" programs for making custom programs. Not only because it uses XP's latest version signal processing filters which tend to be more stable than earlier versions like those used in Deep, but also because it has a higher reactivity setting and has the silencer filter off by default which is preferred by those hunting in thick iron (the condition in which the Deus most excels versus other detectors). The silencer can break up mixed ferrous signals like bottlecaps to make them more recognizable and reduces some ferrous chatter, but has the drawback of masking non-ferrous targets near ferrous targets and if it is set too high, can adversely affect detection depth, especially in mineralized soils. HTH.

 

[Iffy Signals]

Thx for the detailed reply! Appreciate it

 

[basstrackerman]

I thought deep was the one with silencer off by default? And fast was set at 2 or 3 depending on reactivity?

 

[vferrari]

Fast and Deep both have silencer off by default.

 

[basstrackerman]

No, you can only go with (Coin Fast) or without (Coin Deep). Coin Fast will adjust silencer level depending on reactivity setting chosen presumably similar to Deus as follows:

ORX Coin Fast Reactivity/Silencer (speculated)
1/3
2/2
2.5/2
3/2

ORX Coin Deep Reactivity/Silencer (-1 = Silencer Off)
1/-1
2/-1
2.5/-1
3/-1

Deus Reactivity/Silencer (Actual)
0/3
1/3
2/2
2.5/2
3/2
4/1
5/1
Last edited by vferrari; Feb 24, 2019 at 10:52 AM.

 

[basstrackerman]

: Does the ORX use the same settings as the Deus.
A: Coin fast is almost exactly the same as Deus Fast, it uses an active silencer depending on your reactivity settings. Coin Deep replicates the Deus deep program 6, it uses no silencer regardless of your reactivity settings.

 

[Iffy Signals]

Is the ORX deep program two tone or three tone?

 

[basstrackerman]

Is the ORX deep program two tone or three tone?

3 tone.

 

[vferrari]

I thought deep was the one with silencer off by default? And fast was set at 2 or 3 depending on reactivity?

No, you can only go with (Coin Fast) or without (Coin Deep). Coin Fast will adjust silencer level depending on reactivity setting chosen presumably similar to Deus as follows:

ORX Coin Fast Reactivity/Silencer (speculated)
1/3
2/2
2.5/2
3/2

ORX Coin Deep Reactivity/Silencer (-1 = Silencer Off)
1/-1
2/-1
2.5/-1
3/-1

Deus Reactivity/Silencer (Actual)
0/3
1/3
2/2
2.5/2
3/2
4/1
5/1
Last edited by vferrari; Feb 24, 2019 at 10:52 AM.

: Does the ORX use the same settings as the Deus.
A: Coin fast is almost exactly the same as Deus Fast, it uses an active silencer depending on your reactivity settings. Coin Deep replicates the Deus deep program 6, it uses no silencer regardless of your reactivity settings.

I was talking Deus not ORX. (OP never mentioned ORX). On Deus, Fast and Deep preloaded programs, the reactivity is off by default. Check the Deus Remote or Deus manual if you don't believe me. XP changed it up on ORX where Fast uses variable silencer settings and Deep does not (default off). The XP FAQ for ORX is confusing because it implies the ORX Coin Fast is "almost exactly the same" as the Deus Fast defaults, when in the case of silencer it is not the same.

 

[basstrackerman]

Deus Reactivity/Silencer (Actual)
0/3
1/3
2/2
2.5/2
3/2
4/1
5/1
Last edited by vferrari; Feb 24, 2019 at 10:52 AM.

 

[basstrackerman]

Coin fast is almost exactly the same as Deus Fast, it uses an active silencer depending on your reactivity settings.its says active silencer. Not fixed at -1

 

[basstrackerman]

So who is right? You in February or you now? I'm seriously confused.

 

[Tedyoh]

Hey all, just catching up on some of these posts and have a question.. seems like most like to use the fast as a base program. Why is that? I have used deep for a couple customs and wanted to know what benefit fast has as the base. Thx

If you have seen any of my videos on youtube or here i am mostly in the woods hunting cella holes.

Thx Mike.

For me it depends on what coil I'm using.....if im running the LF coil i like using Deep as default for custom programs......if using the HF coil i like using Fast as default for custom programs....cellar holes I'd have the HF on 100% of the time.....coin shooting / parks....LF coil 100%

 

[vferrari]

So who is right? You in February or you now? I'm seriously confused.

I think what you are getting confused about is the difference between default program settings and the default behavior of how the silencer settings automatically change with manual changes to reactivity.

Regarding silencer default behavior, for some crazy, unknown reason, XP decided to program the Deus (independent of preset mode) so that silencer will change to the defaults I described in the table above if you change the reactivity setting from the preset program default without going back in and manually turning silencer off. So while the default setting for Deus fast is reactivity 3 and silencer -1 , if you change the reactivity setting to 2.5 or 4 then silencer will automatically change to the default associated with that reactivity setting (i.e., for reactivity 2.5 that is 2 and for 4 that is 1). Whenever you change reactivity, you have to manually go in and change silencer back to -1, if you want to turn silencer back off. Even if you go back to reactivity 3 (the Deus default) you will have to change silencer from 2 back to -1. This is something every Deus user has to watch out for. This is an undocumented “feature” or quirk with Deus that I only first learned about from the Andy Sabisch Deus handbook, it is not described in the Deus user manual.

Regarding program preset defaults, XP set up Deus Fast, Deep, and a couple other preset programs to have silencer off by default regardless of the the default reactivity setting for the program e.g., 3 and -1 for Deus Fast and 2 and -1 for Deus Deep), but if you change the reactivity setting away from the program preset default, silencer will behave as described in the table above that you quoted.

Regarding ORX, I took XP’s description of the ORX Coin Fast and Coin Deep programs to mean that for Coin Fast, silencer is on for the default reactivity setting (which is different than Deus) but will behave as described in the table above if you change ORX reactivity (which is the same as Deus). For Coin Deep, the silencer feature is off at the default reactivity setting (same as Deus) and remains off for all reactivity settings which is different than how Deus behaves. I suspect that XP did this as a simplified way for the ORX user to have a choice of silencer/no silencer since the silencer setting cannot be manually adjusted by the ORX.

Hey, I didn’t design it, just trying to describe this quirky setup, which is hard to do in words without causing confusion, obviously.

 

[Iffy Signals]

So if i used all the same customized settings. What would fast filters do for me over deep filters? Thats what i was looking for.. if that helps.

Like reactivity 2, silencer -1, sens, tones, audio responce ect... just wanna know about the newer filters and the benefits.

Thanks all

 

[basstrackerman]

In version 5 XP changed the silencer so if you changed it to -1 it would stay that way no matter where you changed your reactivity to . At least I think so. 5.0 was the first update I seen have that feature.

 

[vferrari]

In version 5 XP changed the silencer so if you changed it to -1 it would stay that way no matter where you changed your reactivity to . At least I think so. 5.0 was the first update I seen have that feature.

Bill,

You are right...sort of. Just got a copy of Andy's book and XP changed the silencer behavior in 5.2 to the following:

Deus Reactivity/Silencer (Actual) ver 5.2
0/3
1/3
2/2
2.5/-1
3/-1
4/-1
5/-1

Deus Reactivity/Silencer (Actual) all ver prior to 5.2
0/3
1/3
2/2
2.5/2
3/2
4/1
5/1

So basically, with high reactivity settings 2.5 and greater, silencer is turned off. Deep still has silencer at -1 for reactivity of 2, however, as the default.

Dunno what XP is doing with ORX since it only uses reactivity 1 through 3 as I recall.
So I don't know if it follows the pre or post 5.2 reactivity/silencer behavior. Thanks for being persistent and asking the questions. Learn sonething new every day here.

 

[HighPlainsHunter]

--- snip ---
Dunno what XP is doing with ORX since it only uses reactivity 1 through 3 as I recall.
So I don't know if it follows the pre or post 5.2 reactivity/silencer behavior. Thanks for being persistent and asking the questions. Learn sonething new every day here.

I wonder if Reactivity 1-3 on the ORX is something like Minelab did with Recovery on the Equinox 600 only using 1-3, but actually representing 2,4,6 on the Equinox 800? Just a thought...

 

[vferrari]

I wonder if Reactivity 1-3 on the ORX is something like Minelab did with Recovery on the Equinox 600 only using 1-3, but actually representing 2,4,6 on the Equinox 800? Just a thought...

Good thought. Anyone's guess as XP is not being less clear on how silencer is implemented in ORX than they were with Deus. XP doesn't even say how the tone breaks are implemented on ORX other than the first break is based on disc setting.