Florida County Park Rules (against detecting?)

[godisnum1]

I need to know if anyone knows of any rules that prohibit metal detecting in county parks in the state of Florida... specifically Pinellas County in Saint Petersburg, FL.

I didn't think it was an issue, until another T-Net member just got booted out today from the same park I hunted yesterday and found my first silver coin at.

Anyway, any information or insight would be superb!!

Bran <><

 

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[Mental Granny]

Who kicked him out ?

 

[godisnum1]

Who kicked him out ?

He said it was either a park management lady or a park ranger woman... it was kinda hard to make sense of it because it was over text messages, and I was really busy with work today.

Bran <><

 

[Mental Granny]

Was wondering if thenif she was in uniform or showed ID ! Even if she was and did she might have lied just to get him out! Call an ask which ever agency, I know I hate that idea cause it could raise a red flag but ....

Unless you can look up regulations on line.

 

[godisnum1]

I do plan on looking the regulations up... I was just hoping someone might have some pre-existing knowledge of it on here.

Bran <><

 

[Mental Granny]

I would like to know if the woman was real or not.

 

[godisnum1]

Not sure who the woman was, as I wasn't there to witness it myself and speak with her. But I did just contact the Pinellas County Park System electronically in reference to obtaining the park laws, rules & regulations for Pinellas County parks. We'll see what their reply might be. Hopefully I might get my hands on a digital copy that I can print up and bring with me, should metal detecting not be listed as a prohibited activity in the parks.

Bran <><

 

[Jon Phillips]

Some parks that are of historic interest will have a "no digging or removing of objects" sign. I would think it would vary from county to county.

Remember they tried that in Clay county....an "official" stating that it was illegal to metal detect on county property, but it was found to not be true, and all attempts to ban it were struck down.

 

[godisnum1]

Well, I've managed to track down the park rules & regulations for Pinellas County parks under the Municipal Code website.

It states this in Sec. 90-5. Preservation of property (e), "No person shall make any search, excavation by tool, equipment, blasting, or other means or agency. Metal detectors are allowed with permission of the county administrator."

SO I decided to contact the County Administrator with this message,

To: Robert S. LaSala, County Administrator

Dear Mr LaSala,

I have sent a previous e-mail through the Pinellas County website, inquiring about the regulations regarding metal detecting in Pinellas County parks.

I have since been able to locate the Rules & Regulations on the Municipal Code website, provided to be by Sally with the Park Management system.

Under the Municipal Code website, specifically Sec. 90-5 (Preservation of property), Sub-Sec. (e), it states, "No person shall make any search, excavation by tool, equipment, blasting, or other means or agency. Metal detectors are allowed with permission of the county administrator."

According to Sec. 90-5 (Preservation of property), Sub-Sec. (e), I would like to formally request your written and oral permission to metal detect in any/all Pinellas County parks. I would be happy to speak with you over the phone or in person in regards to my hobby and the Code of Ethics that I hold to as a detectorist.

I will look forward to your response.

And this was the response I just received from Paul Cozzie, the Culture, Education and Leisure Director.

Dear Brandon:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding metal detecting in Pinellas County Parks. County Administrator Robert La Sala has asked me to respond to your request on his behalf.

Park policy allows for use of metal detectors under specific conditions:

1) Use of metal detectors is allowed, with permission, on Pinellas County beaches between the toe of the dune and the high water mark. Any recovered articles, artifacts, etc. remain property of the park and shall be turned over to park staff.

2) Permission for use of metal detectors in all other Pinellas County parks is prohibited except for purposes of retrieving specific lost articles. Requests may be made in writing to this office, which will be forwarded to the County Administrator with staff’s recommendation for approval or denial.

Please contact me if you have any additional questions or need further information.

Sincerely,

Paul Cozzie
Culture, Education and Leisure Director
Pinellas County
727.582.2502

He didn't state where those rules came from, and they seem to differ from what I've read in the Municipal Codes... so I don't know.

Bran <><

 

[ivan salis]

florida law says that --high water line to dune foot is "the beach" --public land open to the public --for public use --including metal detecting --and items found upon it are the finders --- I think that rule #1 clearly over steps it bounds --ie YOU can hunt "the beach" dune foot to high water line BUT we the park / county keep all rhe "treasure" you find .--- thats so BS--- clearly they have to know that --if not time to "fill them in on it"--as to it being "illegal" most likely .

off the beach they can "set" the local park rules as they see fit -- metal detecting only for "lost" items and one must ask for permission ahead of time --have a general area "in mind" and even maybe be "escorted" while hunting (to see you do not find and take "other items") --in effect shut off metal detecting in the park as far as "treasure hunting" goes.--only lost and found type hunting .-- I would of course complain that its unfair and discrimatory to allow others "free use" of a public park and not me. at the next county board meeting .

be sure to talk about how "tourist" come to "treasure hunt" on the tampa bay area "beaches" for "pirate gold" and such and how this rule will discourge them form coming to your area --causing "tourist" dollars to go to more "tourist freindly" places in florida --trust me "tourist money" talks

 

[godisnum1]

I'd have to agree with the "not being able to keep anything you find on the beach" thing being completely off-base here.
I understand the artifact rules, even though I "personally" don't think it should belong to the state, but those who live here and pay for the state to exist with our taxes. But again, I still understand the rules.

I need to find the documentation I need in regards to all of this before e-mailing that guy back.
I want to try to be as respectful as I can, so that I don't burn bridges.

Bran <><

 

[ivan salis]

think carefully --be respectful --but stand your "ground" about whats right and wrong -- be clear about why its "not legally" right to withhold a persons "beach finds" -- state that legally speaking historically "florida beaches " (dune foot to high water line ) are open to the public for public enjoyment and use and items found there while metal detecting belong to the finder * -- and that rule #1 violates that long standing "common law"

also state that not allow folks to "keep" their once in a great while "odd" beach find --will discourge tourist from coming to their beach and staying in the area -- causing a possible loss of tourist revenue to local bussiness (hotels / resturants ect) and thus a lost tax revenue to the county * in other words --its plain ole "bad for bussiness" in general

 

[godisnum1]

I'll do my best...

 

[godisnum1]

So I think I might try to arrange a meeting with County Administrator instead of corresponding by e-mail, and being passed off to some other guy who doesn't know the (complete) laws that govern over metal detecting on a beach.

I was only thinking this because I was mulling around in my mind what I knew of Mr. LaSala... that he received his bachelor's degree in HISTORY from LeMoyne College in Syracuse, NY. So if anyone should be able to relate to our hobby in this city, it might just be him.
I thought of maybe even inviting to take him out with me someone, if he showed any kind of interest in the hobby, and show him what we do...

Bran <><

 

[Jon Phillips]

I mentioned on the other thread....The guy is just quoting the STATE PARKS and NAVIGABLE WATERWAYS regulations....unless the county has adopted those as well...

 

[godisnum1]

I think he was merging things together for sure...

Bran <><

 

[RPG]

So I think I might try to arrange a meeting with County Administrator instead of corresponding by e-mail, and being passed off to some other guy who doesn't know the (complete) laws that govern over metal detecting on a beach.

I was only thinking this because I was mulling around in my mind what I knew of Mr. LaSala... that he received his bachelor's degree in HISTORY from LeMoyne College in Syracuse, NY. So if anyone should be able to relate to our hobby in this city, it might just be him.
I thought of maybe even inviting to take him out with me someone, if he showed any kind of interest in the hobby, and show him what we do...

Bran <><

I think that is a great idea Bran.

Wouldn't it be awesome to find something of historical value on that hunt and donate it to the local museum. That would shut this issue down for a long time.

Even if you don't find that historical relic, show him what we do. We're not out there to dig up the world. We're just having fun in our own way. I metal detect not only to find things, I do it for exercise. Just like those guys that ride bikes and get in my way on the highway.

 

[godisnum1]

Yeah, it would be cool for sure. And around that plantation home, it's likely that relics could certainly be found there. But I don't want to press the matter of "relics" because that's right where archaeologists like to step in and make accusations... even though I worked with the Central Gulf Coast Archaeology Society for 5 years down here in St Pete way back in high school, so I understand both worlds.

I did find a relic though on the last hunt (CTH2) that I went on... and was going to loan my railroad tag to the museum, but ended up finding how they were personally financed, so it wasn't a good idea to do so.

Anyway, I just hope something positive can come of this... because I've grown up my whole life in this city, and I like to explore the history of our area.

Bran <><

 

[godisnum1]

So before contacting Mr. LaSala, I tried to send out a message to a few different people trying to see if I could get specific information/permission for detecting... before knowing that Mr. LaSala (County Administrator) was the ONLY one that could give the "ok" to detect in our parks. Here's my not-so-well thought out message,

To Whom It May Concern,

I'm contacting you to inquire what the policies are for metal detecting in Pinellas County parks. It is a hobby of mine that I have had for years now, which I've had a chance to do in many different states and teach others how to enjoy this hobby, as well as adhering to the metal detecting Code of Ethics. I diligently make sure to never leave any visible areas where I have carefully removed an inch or two of soil, approximately 3" x 3" and always restore the area back to how it previously appeared. I also make a point to take any metal trash that I find above ground or below ground (i.e. pull-tabs, bottle caps, nails, pieces of aluminum cans, etc.) that might cause anyone harm and carefully dispose of it at my residence. Hopefully there are some type of guidelines that you have which I can read over and abide by while I enjoy my hobby. I want to be sure to take whatever steps I can to know that I'm following any and all rules in reference to this.

So AFTER already contacting Mr. LaSala and receiving a response from Mr. Cozzie... my message was delayed and received to Mr. LaSala's office again. This message, obviously different than my last. Mr. Cozzie again replied with the same e-mail as before... but this time, he sent it not only to me, but a TON of other park people (which kind of bothered me, like he was trying to prove a point) And keep in mind, I hadn't gotten a chance to reply to his first message yet... because I was just going to not respond and instead schedule a personal meeting with Mr. LaSala himself.

SO, I finally felt I had no choice but to respond to him. But I AM still planning on scheduling a meeting with Mr. LaSala before or after my trip up to Kansas for the CTH3 next week! Here's my response to Mr. Cozzie... let me know if I was respectful enough.

Dear Paul,

I apologize for the double e-mails, as I sent that other e-mail before attempting to contact Mr. LaSala and I inadvertently put my screen name that I use on the metal detecting forums out of habit, instead of my actual name. Again, I apologize for that.

In regards to what you stated, I do have some questions.

The first condition you indicated about detecting on beach areas, I don't believe any laws state this particular condition in full.
I do know that you can only detect from the high tide line to the toe of the dunes, but that's about as specific as the law appears (that I'm aware of)
Even at Fort deSoto, for instance, the rules appear to be the same as any other beach. I have the metal detecting permit for that park as well.
However, there has never been any laws that I'm familiar with that state that you can only detect on the beach "with permission", nor any laws stating that "any recovered articles" remain property of the park (i.e. county) and should be turned over to any staff or workers. I understand the difference between finding something modern, versus finding something that would be considered an artifact, as I worked with the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society for 5 years. This seems like you may be sourcing state or federal laws? Unless of course the county has adopted those similar laws; which to the best of my knowledge, I'm not aware of that being the case.

And as for only being able to detect in parks with the purpose of retrieving lost items with permission... again, that appears to be state rules & regulations.

According to the Municipal Code website, it just says that I need permission from the County Administrator to metal detect. It doesn't seem to say anything about what you have said in your e-mails to me.

So for the sake of my understanding, would you please be kind enough to send a copy of the documentation to me for the policies that you were citing?

This would greatly help me understand the park laws concerning my hobby.

Thank you,

Brandon

 

[Silver Surfer]

Not sure who the woman was, as I wasn't there to witness it myself and speak with her. But I did just contact the Pinellas County Park System electronically in reference to obtaining the park laws, rules & regulations for Pinellas County parks. We'll see what their reply might be. Hopefully I might get my hands on a digital copy that I can print up and bring with me, should metal detecting not be listed as a prohibited activity in the parks.

Bran <><

That is the BEST way to do it... It is really amazing me (it's the Govt and people, so why be amazed) at how many "officials" pull this crap..
State parks (except historical sites) are allowed, most by permit, but I went to one locally and told them what I was going to do.. One says "oh, I am not sure about that, you need to talk to her", so I ask "her" and she says "it's not allowed here, this is a state park", to which I replied that hunting was allowed in state parks, but some need to issue a permit, that's why I am asking.. She then starts going on and on about how she knows it is not permitted, and I made the stupid mistake of saying that it is allowed in all state parks except those designated "historical" sites... Took her about a millisecond to state "oh, this is a historical site" and also that it was privately owned, but leased to the state... I was so mad I just left..
The other day I was at a city park in another town close to me, and the park worker approaches me and says "you cant do that here" and when I asked who said that, he said "I am pretty sure my boss doesnt want metal detecting done here"... I had called the city months earlier and they said there was no law that you couldnt do it.. He then says "oh, well we got a new boss a couple months ago, and I am pretty sure she doesnt want it done".... I told him that I knew there was no law or ordinance, and that I was going detecting.. He went on his way..
Had a worker in another park tell me that "they leave holes all over", and at that park there WERE holes all over, some a good 5" deep and looking really bad... I laughed, and then pointed to one of probably dozens of squirrels that was feverishly digging a hole probably 4" wide and a good 3" deep...
"I didnt know squirrels metal detected".... He laughed and I told him "I wonder how much of this bad rap we detectors get is really squirrels"..... He smiled and said "go at it"...

There is a mighty big difference in between what govt workers WANT to be, and WHAT IS.... Pisses me off to no end..

Good luck Bran...