Forest service roads on private property.

[danec71]

So here's another gate question but this one is different. I'm looking for an alternative to access my Mining claims in case the road I will be using has any problems. So this forest service road starts from the highway starts going up the hill about a half a mile later it enters onto private property. At that point the owner has put up a gate but the road continues on through his property for about 3 miles then enters back onto forest service property at the top of the hill and then back down the other side. so my question is since I have a claim up at the top can I get a key from the forest service to go through his gate which I am assuming not only has a private lock on it but also a forest service lock, drive through his private property to access the public property on the other side. As long as I don't leave the road and drive right through then they should be willing to give me a key to access this forest service road correct. The road does have a forest service number so I'm assuming it's an easement through the property. What do you guys think. I asked because I told the four service I'd like a key through this area and they told me that they would have to ask the guy if it was OK. Supposedly they asked him and he said no so they said I could not get a key. I'm pretty sure they didn't even bother to ask and I didn't think that was a right anyway.

 

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[galenrog]

Laws concerning easements can vary widely depending on jurisdiction and purpose of easement. You probably assume correctly that the Forest Service has an easement through the property. The primary question is whether that easement extends to the general public.

The first course of action is to ask the Forest Service. They own the easement. Failing that, the next action would be to contact the property owner.

Make no assumptions as to legal access through private lands.

Time for more coffee.

 

[Mine Shaft]

Is there a gate at the start of the service road ? should be. Is the second gate a forest service gate ? and at the second gate is there a fence on ether side or both sides of the gate ?

 

[danec71]

There is a forest service gate at the start.then at the property line of the private property the owner has put up a gate.the forest service road runs through that for a couple miles then exit out onto forest service land again.nothing on the sides.this guy bought 700 acres of old timber company land a few years ago.then put up the gate.never was one there before him

 

[Mine Shaft]

I would think that guys gate should be open if its on a numbered road something ain't right i could understand if he has cattle or something. You said you talked to a ranger, i would call and talk to them again.

 

[Mine Shaft]

There are places in California that go through Privet property on a numbered service road and no gates unless theirs cattle even then no lock just a sign that says please close gate.

 

[Bejay]

Check to see whose money built the road. Did he build the road through his property or did public money build the road. Who maintains the road through his property: does he or does the USFS. It makes a difference.

Bejay

 

[danec71]

I'm sure he maintains even though its forest service.like I said use to be timber company owned with no gate untill he bought

 

[Goldwasher]

timber company is a private entity. So, It may not have been built by f.S.

Near me the fs land has a patchwork of F.S. and timber co. land.

There are gates at the edge of the timber holding and they are totally legal

If there is no prescriptive easement you won't have a right to get a key.

Regardless of what land is beyond the private inholding. Pretty common thing in the west.

Just cause you used to be able to use a road doesn't always mean it can't be gated legally at some point.

Different than the F.S. putting a gate in.

 

[arizau]

Curious if FS maintains the private portion. My guess is no. Also if the road loops/connects to alternative access. Found the same situation in Oregon years ago involving a timber tract.

 

[wildminer]

Offhand I can think of a number of roads in SW Oregon that are private timber lands with FS or BLM land behind them that are gated by the timber companies. It is getting very common for these timberland companies to lease their lands to hunting groups or individuals and not allow access to others. Weyerhauser for instance, charges $200-$350 for access for a year on their land. Maybe this landowner would consider a fee or some sort of trade for a key to his gate if approached in a friendly manner.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Prescriptive easements are only legally valid if adjudicated. Most are just a claimed right based on precesdence.
It is important to know if public funds were used to construct or maintain the road.
Many times the USFS will allow private land owners to gate roads if there is no easement of record, despite the fact public funds have been used to construct and or maintain the road. This needs to be challenged.
Otherwise it’s a back door way for the USFS to gate a road without giving allowance for public input.
As long as they have a key, they are perfectly content with a gate, especially if nobody questions it.

Most local rural public roads lack ANY easement of record or adjudicated prescriptive easements. They cross through many different private parcels.
It is illegal for those owners to place gates where the road enters their property.
Many times it is unknown who initially constructed the road, but there is record of long standing public use and public funds are used to maintain the roads. Public rights are hard to extinguish. Temporary haul roads may enjoy special status when it comes to public use.

I would politely request the USFS to provide in writing the legal basis they have for allowing the gates to remain in place across the road. If they are not responsive to your request, I would file a FOIA request for all documents related to that specific issue. Be it allowing the gates to be placed, or related to maintenance funding. You may find they receive funding based on mileage..are the lengths that cross private land deducted from the calculation? Either that or accept it as a closed road and find some other public land to enjoy.

 

[danec71]

On the maps it shows as a forest service rd with a number.plus like I said at the highway it starts with a forest service gate.after it crosses through this land he bought from a timber company it continues on for another couple miles.i have access through another part but sometimes that road can become alittle off over the winter.i will just go have another talk with the ranger and find out with some of the stuff you guys have been saying

 

[mikep691]

Keep records of all contacts if you can. Give all your requests for information in written form. It's harder for them to deny they received a request when it was given in written form versus a phone conversation. You can also ask them to stamp it as received and have a copy of it given to you. Very little ever gets done with just a phone conversation, but it you show them you mean business face to face and want copies of everything, they will move a little faster.
If you have to mail your request, mail it certified with return receipt. Now if it's lost in the shuffle you have a signature that it was received. They tend not to lose stuff they have to sign for.

 

[russau]

YUP! Like in life , it's better to have written proof than a handful of ................

 

[Tony_agr]

What is the easement for? If it's for ingress and egress for public access then you should be able to get a key, actually there should be no gate at all, if the easement is designated for say, emergency access ie; forest fire etc.. then you have no right of use. You need to actually view a copy of the recorded easement for more information, you may or may not have a legal access..Also if the easement has not been used for (i believe) 5 years or more its actually considered abandoned, if that is the case then there will be no access through his private property at all.... all of the above info is what I remember from the title insurance business from years ago, you can go to the library and see if they have a copy of the"California land title handbook." this is chocked with information for both sides

 

[wildminer]

I had a claim in the 70's that the only vehicle access was through private property. After I moved on the landowner (a sheriff deputy) crossed the road with a fence and burned the log cabin down. Now there is no road there, replaced with homes. At the time I'm thinking it was 3 years (not sure) if no one forced the issue it reverted to private with no easement. Really a cool place with a millsite claim and several lode claims above. Last I checked on Land Matters the whole area is claimed.