Forum Question

[njal]

People are quick to judge without knowing the facts. I guess that's human nature?
I use the same avatar on several of the forums where I'm a member... and have received no negative comments.
I would think someone living in Florida wouldn't pay notice to the flag? This makes me wonder that maybe you're not from the South.. or maybe African American?

Well let's take a closer look at my avatar...

View attachment 748079

It is a picture of the Southern Cross Of Honor. A military honor presented to Confederate military personnel and veterans.
The name on the top bar of the cross is the same as my last name.. "BRANTLEY".
My family during the 1860's lived in Hancock County, Georgia. My Great Grandfather, his brother, and nephew were in the army...
Army of Northern Virgina under Robert E. Lee.

View attachment 748097



Just wondering...

I think just about everyone has seen the movie "Rambo"... did you know a John Rambo died in Vietnam and his name is on the "Wall" of the Vietnam Memorial?
But, there is another name there under his which I thought was odd that has my last name too. I made it back home... my cousin didn't.

View attachment 748134

Maybe I should have used it as my avatar? No, that war had controversy too.

Or maybe this one...

View attachment 748145

James A. Brantley - American Revolutionary War

Are you starting to get the message now?

Man ! #9 you had family here dating back to the Revolutionary war,
that is something else. Thanks for the history lesson on your avatar."Southern Cross Of Honor"
You didn't need to explain your self to N.F. but you did.

I wanna see him back peddle out of this one!

I got your message loud and clear.

 

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[Tnmountains]

I just got a charter membership a few days ago.

It allows me to watch live as topics are replied to. I can almost instantly decide if I want to read the thread or not.

Well worth the $20

Yeah that is the way to fly around this web site. You can keep your finger on the pulse of great finds and hot topics.

 

[Native Floridian]

.Number9 doesnt have to explain what his flag is for, he flies it for him not for you.

Just to put this to bed - I agree Number 9 didn't have to explain anything to me. I'm still trying to figure out why he did. He asked me for my opinion on his use of the Conferderate Flag as part of his avatar and i gave it to him. Actually, I gave a factual recounting of the controversy surrounding that flag. IOW, not my opinion, I gave the facts that surround the use of the flag. My best guess is, this is not the answer he was hoping for.

I didn't ask for a total recounting of his family's history, he chose to give it to prove in some way that I am too fast to judge. Though i didn't pass judgement in any way. All I did was ask one question: Why use a controversial symbol on a hobby forum? And , i asked that question even though, personally, i have no problem with the Confederate Flag or the Revisionist interpretation that allows it to stand for Southern Heritage.

Even though i've got no problem with the flag, that flag means different things to different people. And, thru their eyes it may not be the symbol Number 9 intends. In a hobby community that is supposed to be ALL WELCOMING that question still stands.

That said, i could care less about Number 9's avatar.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Yeah that is the way to fly around this web site. You can keep your finger on the pulse of great finds and hot topics.

Was'nt that feature free...before the take over.

SS

 

[idowa]

Though i didn't pass judgement in any way. All I did was ask one question: Why use a controversial symbol on a hobby forum?

That is the crux of the issue... It is not a controversial symbol for people from a certain political and social viewpoint and has only been turned into one by those on the other side of the political spectrum who seem to enjoy telling everyone else how they should think and feel.

I grew up in Idaho, in a mixed-race community which had a large university there. I also grew up watching The Dukes of Hazzard. The flag was nothing more than a symbol of Southern pride and rednecks, and I am admittedly part redneck.

It was the Left that decided to ignore history and the epic struggle between the North and South and turn it into a symbol of racism. While I'm sure there are plenty of racists that fly the confederate flag, there are also plenty of normal people that are not racist that also fly the flag, or regard it as part of their heritage.

Those that view the confederate flag as a symbol of racism or controversy are simply projecting their own intolerance and ignorance onto others and seeking to tell them how they should act, or think...

 

[lookindown]

Just to put this to bed - I agree Number 9 didn't have to explain anything to me. I'm still trying to figure out why he did. He asked me for my opinion on his use of the Conferderate Flag as part of his avatar and i gave it to him. Actually, I gave a factual recounting of the controversy surrounding that flag. IOW, not my opinion, I gave the facts that surround the use of the flag. My best guess is, this is not the answer he was hoping for.

I didn't ask for a total recounting of his family's history, he chose to give it to prove in some way that I am too fast to judge. Though i didn't pass judgement in any way. All I did was ask one question: Why use a controversial symbol on a hobby forum? And , i asked that question even though, personally, i have no problem with the Confederate Flag or the Revisionist interpretation that allows it to stand for Southern Heritage.

Even though i've got no problem with the flag, that flag means different things to different people. And, thru their eyes it may not be the symbol Number 9 intends. In a hobby community that is supposed to be ALL WELCOMING that question still stands.

That said, i could care less about Number 9's avatar.

You yold him there were OTHER PLACES to fly his flag...well guess what, he got a lot of support for flying it here.
..
...

 

[Tnmountains]

Was'nt that feature free...before the take over.

SS

Not sure SS. I had alway opted in for the Charter Membership. I felt like it was worth a few bucks for all I learned and the friends made along the way.

 

[CoilyGirl]

About the original topic at hand,if something offends you,avoid it. Some days I want to read more controversial or political subjects,other days I'm in the mood to just read the fluffy stuff so I just walk on by the Second Amendment forum and don't get my panties in a twist,life is too short. The Confederate flag offends some people because they choose to let it offend them and not see it as a part of our history,our whole Nation's history as a matter of fact and make it all about. oppression and slavery.Most of the people that are offended by the Confederate Flag are the ones that want to move backward in time and not forward.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

About the original topic at hand,if something offends you,avoid it. Some days I want to read more controversial or political subjects,other days I'm in the mood to just read the fluffy stuff so I just walk on by the Second Amendment forum and don't get my panties in a twist,life is too short. The Confederate flag offends some people because they choose to let it offend them and not see it as a part of our history,our whole Nation's history as a matter of fact and make it all about. oppression and slavery.Most of the people that are offended by the Confederate Flag are the ones that want to move backward in time and not forward.

Good post Coily.......

 

[njal]

Man UP!

Just to put this to bed - I agree Number 9 didn't have to explain anything to me. I'm still trying to figure out why he did. He asked me for my opinion on his use of the Conferderate Flag as part of his avatar and i gave it to him. Actually, I gave a factual recounting of the controversy surrounding that flag. IOW, not my opinion, I gave the facts that surround the use of the flag. My best guess is, this is not the answer he was hoping for.

I didn't ask for a total recounting of his family's history, he chose to give it to prove in some way that I am too fast to judge. Though i didn't pass judgement in any way. All I did was ask one question: Why use a controversial symbol on a hobby forum? And , i asked that question even though, personally, i have no problem with the Confederate Flag or the Revisionist interpretation that allows it to stand for Southern Heritage.

Even though i've got no problem with the flag, that flag means different things to different people. And, thru their eyes it may not be the symbol Number 9 intends. In a hobby community that is supposed to be ALL WELCOMING that question still stands.

That said, i could care less about Number 9's avatar.

I think I can tell you why he gave you his family history.
You had him pegged for A NAZI , or RACIST. You labeled
Him without knowing the facts!
You even went as far to ask him if belonged to a group
That would over throw our Government!

You can clearly see now that Wayne AKA #9 is an American Combat Veteran
Who served his country.
I hope you can see through your tunnel vision and realize Wayne
and his family come from a long line of patriots.
Stop back peddling! Man up and apologize to Wayne

 

[Keppy]

Just to put this to bed - I agree Number 9 didn't have to explain anything to me. I'm still trying to figure out why he did. He asked me for my opinion on his use of the Conferderate Flag as part of his avatar and i gave it to him. Actually, I gave a factual recounting of the controversy surrounding that flag. IOW, not my opinion, I gave the facts that surround the use of the flag. My best guess is, this is not the answer he was hoping for.

I didn't ask for a total recounting of his family's history, he chose to give it to prove in some way that I am too fast to judge. Though i didn't pass judgement in any way. All I did was ask one question: Why use a controversial symbol on a hobby forum? And , i asked that question even though, personally, i have no problem with the Confederate Flag or the Revisionist interpretation that allows it to stand for Southern Heritage.

Even though i've got no problem with the flag, that flag means different things to different people. And, thru their eyes it may not be the symbol Number 9 intends. In a hobby community that is supposed to be ALL WELCOMING that question still stands.

That said, i could care less about Number 9's avatar.

..... Just admit it you were WRONG WRONG WRONG............... YOU PUT YOUR NOSE IN WERE IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PUT............... It is ones like you that thinks the only thing people should like or believe in is what you like and believe in........

 

[Native Floridian]

That is the crux of the issue... It is not a controversial symbol for people from a certain political and social viewpoint and has only been turned into one by those on the other side of the political spectrum who seem to enjoy telling everyone else how they should think and feel.

I grew up in Idaho, in a mixed-race community which had a large university there. I also grew up watching The Dukes of Hazzard. The flag was nothing more than a symbol of Southern pride and rednecks, and I am admittedly part redneck.

It was the Left that decided to ignore history and the epic struggle between the North and South and turn it into a symbol of racism. While I'm sure there are plenty of racists that fly the confederate flag, there are also plenty of normal people that are not racist that also fly the flag, or regard it as part of their heritage.

Those that view the confederate flag as a symbol of racism or controversy are simply projecting their own intolerance and ignorance onto others and seeking to tell them how they should act, or think...

idowa - so, you grew up in a mixed race society in Idaho? Tell me, were there "Whites Only" signs there? You'd find those at restaurants, rest rooms and water fountains. I ask, because where i grew up, they were everywhere.

Past that, you've got your facts a little screwed up here.

First, the left didn't ignore history. The Right rewrote it. It's called revisionism. The Civil War was about Slavery. Unless you ask the southerners who flocked to Lincoln's party after the war. They rewrote the books stating State's Rights were the issue. The "Lost Cause" rewrite of history, coincidently pushed by the UDC, has been embrassed by many southerner's to a point of being taught in schools. I imagine to many it is fact that the "WAR between the States" as it was taught in many southern schools wasn't about slavery. Which neatly explains why so many here may be insensitive to the fact that, that flag represents oppression at it's worse to many. Now we can debate until the cows come home about what the Civil war was really about. But if you say anything other than slavery, you are wrong. As wrong as believing our ancestors didn't steal this country from the Indians. But, hey, let's not go there because, afterall, we're pretty comfortable with our version of history.

Further, those who see the the Confederate Flag as a symbol of racism do so because the flag has been co-opted by White Supremacist groups and Neo-Confederate groups. These groups are projecting hatred and intolerence towards others. SO, to my point, when you see this flag flying in front of someone's house - are they sending a racist message or are they just a Dukes of Hazzard fan? Thus the controversy.

As posted. i grew up in Florida in the fifties and sixties. There were plenty of Confederate Flags flying. And, there were no racist. Just "Whites Only" signs everywhere. So, save the lessons on intolerance. I lived it. Not something i want to relive.

 

[Native Floridian]

I think I can tell you why he gave you his family history.
You had him pegged for A NAZI , or RACIST. You labeled
Him without knowing the facts!
You even went as far to ask him if belonged to a group
That would over throw our Government!

You can clearly see now that Wayne AKA #9 is an American Combat Veteran
Who served his country.
I hope you can see through your tunnel vision and realize Wayne
and his family come from a long line of patriots.
Stop back peddling! Man up and apologize to Wayne

Reading comprehension counts. Go back and show me where i called him anything. Parse the comment in your post. Do so in context. I didn't call Wayne anything. I spoke only to the mixed message the Confederate Flag sends.

NJAL i understand why the Southern contingent is upset with my comments but dude your from jersey. You've got no horse in this race.

As for Wayne being proud of his family's military history, that's cool. He picked a symbol of pride to his family, but also a symbol of oppression to others. And he's the one who brought it up. He asked Whadda ya think? Truth is i could give a hoot, but the black neurosurgeon who lives next door to me doesn't see it that way. BTW, i asked.

There is nothing to apologize for.

 

[CoilyGirl]

idowa - so, you grew up in a mixed race soiciety in Iowa? Tell me, were there "Whites Only" signs there? You'd find those at restaurants, rest rooms and water fountains. I ask, because where i grew up, they were everywhere.

Past that, you've got your facts a little screwed up here.

First, the left didn't ignore history. The Right rewrote it. It's called revisionism. The Civil War was about Slavery. Unless you ask the southerners who flocked to Lincoln's party after the war. They rewrote the books stating State's Rights were the issue. The "Lost Cause" rewrite of history, coincidently pushed by the UDC, has been embrassed by many southerner's to a point of being taught in schools. I imagine to many it is fact that the "WAR between the States" as it was taught in many southern schools wasn't about slavery. Which neatly explains why so many here may be insensitive to the fact that, that flag represents oppression at it's worse to many. Now we can debate until the cows come home about what the Civil war was really about. But if you say anything other than slavery, you are wrong. As wrong as believing our ancestors didn't steal this country from the Indians. But, hey, let's not go there because, afterall, we're pretty comfortable with our version of history.

Further, those who see the the Confederate Flag as a symbol of racism do so because the flag has been co-opted by White Supremacist groups and Neo-Confederate groups. These groups are projecting hatred and intolerence towards others. SO, to my point, when you see this flag flying in front of someone's house - are they sending a racist message or are they just a Dukes of Hazzard fan? Thus the controversy.

As posted. i grew up in Florida in the fifties and sixties. There were plenty of Confederate Flags flying. And, there were no racist. Just "Whites Only" signs everywhere. So, save the lessons on intolerance. I lived it. Not something i want to relive.

Lincoln's move to free the slaves was done for political reasons mostly, though he says he did not believe in slavery.He freed just some slaves,those that could join Union forces and fight the states that succeeded from the Union.I'm not arguing slavery was right,I don't think that at all but the Civil War was fought over state rights primarily as opposed to solely being about slavery.Yes,extremist groups did and still do promote hatred through flying the Rebel flag but such is not the case with ALL that display it and I guess I'm a little offended at the suggestion that I'm somehow rewriting history by trying to fit something in a neat compartmentalized little box to make myself feel better.My forefathers fought just as hard for what they believed in whether all of it was right,no,butThe Civil War was still part of our history. I know some black people who are ashamed at the way the race card is still being played to this day because of the actions of people who lived 165 years ago that has nothing to do with the here and now.THEY should be ashamed.

 

[Native Floridian]

..... Just admit it you were WRONG WRONG WRONG............... YOU PUT YOUR NOSE IN WERE IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PUT............... It is ones like you that thinks the only thing people should like or believe in is what you like and believe in........

I was asked to render an opinion. instead of doing that i posted the fact surrounding the Confederate Flag controversy. That has offended many here. Yet i am only the messenger. I didn't create the controversy. I'm not judging anyone or telling anyone what they should believe.

it does seem that you are among those passing judgement and telling me what to believe.

That said, i've gone back thru my original post to see if unintentioanly i said something to Wayne that could be construed as judgemental. In context there is nothing. I'm speaking only about the flag controversy. When i asked him why he chose a controversial symbol i did so in earnest, expecting a simple "Southern Pride" answer. Nothing more. That he was offended by my post surprized me. To me the Confederate Flag controversy is a The sky is blue issue. Of course it is, so what, next!

I understand that to many who grew up in the south, and were educated in the south that to these indiviuals the Confederate Flag bears no controversy. Again, why we've run into a wall in the understanding department here.

In my neck of the woods having this conversation brings no emotion. There is no axe to grind. It is what it is. And, what it is, is a controversy in some areas of the country. Sorry if this is news to some here.

 

[CoilyGirl]

I do understand the controversy over the Confederate flag,truly I do and I respect that but my point was that it seems like people who do like the flag for the pure reasons of Southern Pride are not allowed that without some thinking they are " hiding behind that" as a ruse for being a racist,that I object to and maybe thats where he was coming from.I remember there being a big controversy over a high school one of my sons went to because they were the Rebels and someone took objection.I thought it ridiculous.There are so many symbols that can be offensive or misconstrued I guess but being able to understand where everyone is coming each other is the key to dialect. I find it interesting that some black people collect Aunt Jemima memorabilia but if a white person wants to collect those same things they are judged harshly.

 

[lookindown]

I was asked to render an opinion. instead of doing that i posted the fact surrounding the Confederate Flag controversy. That has offended many here. Yet i am only the messenger. I didn't create the controversy. I'm not judging anyone or telling anyone what they should believe.

it does seem that you are among those passing judgement and telling me what to believe.

That said, i've gone back thru my original post to see if unintentioanly i said something to Wayne that could be construed as judgemental. In context there is nothing. I'm speaking only about the flag controversy. When i asked him why he chose a controversial symbol i did so in earnest, expecting a simple "Southern Pride" answer. Nothing more. That he was offended by my post surprized me. To me the Confederate Flag controversy is a The sky is blue issue. Of course it is, so what, next!

I understand that to many who grew up in the south, and were educated in the south that to these indiviuals the Confederate Flag bears no controversy. Again, why we've run into a wall in the understanding department here.

In my neck of the woods having this conversation brings no emotion. There is no axe to grind. It is what it is. And, what it is, is a controversy in some areas of the country. Sorry if this is news to some here.

What about telling him there were OTHER PLACES to fly his flag? You say people from the south dont think the rebel flag bears controversy...you dont understand, we know it bears controversy...WE DONT CARE...interpret it your way, I will interpret it mine.
...

 

[Native Floridian]

What about telling him there were OTHER PLACES to fly his flag? You say people from the south dont think the rebel flag bears controversy...you dont understand, we know it bears controversy...WE DONT CARE...interpret it your way, I will interpret it mine.
...

lookingdown, again reading comprehension counts. I didn't tell him there were other places to fly his flag. What I posted was there are other places to fly the flag. And, I wasn't speaking of him or his flag. i was speaking about myself. Go back and reread the entire paragraph in context. it begins i don't even use an avatar. The contextual meaning of the paragraph is I don't use avatars to convey a message. There are other places to convey a message -other places to fly the flag.


With benefit of 20/20 hindsite it was probably a poor choice of words on my part and i can see why you are confused about it.

 

[Native Floridian]

For me, I don't even use an avatar. I picked from the family friendly avatars available in the pull down menu. I don't use this place to support my political and religious beliefs. This place is for fun and relaxation. There are other places to fly the flag.

lookindown to save you some time, here is the paragraph in context.

As i said, my reference to flying the flag means other places to convey messages. The term "flying the flag" is a figure of speech. it's not a telling anyone where they can fly their flags. This paragraph goes to the original post of using avatars to convey political messages. Which some are doing here. It has nothing to do with the Confederate flag.

And BTW, I grew up in the South too.

 

[Native Floridian]

I do understand the controversy over the Confederate flag,truly I do and I respect that but my point was that it seems like people who do like the flag for the pure reasons of Southern Pride are not allowed that without some thinking they are " hiding behind that" as a ruse for being a racist,that I object to and maybe thats where he was coming from.I remember there being a big controversy over a high school one of my sons went to because they were the Rebels and someone took objection.I thought it ridiculous.There are so many symbols that can be offensive or misconstrued I guess but being able to understand where everyone is coming each other is the key to dialect. I find it interesting that some black people collect Aunt Jemima memorabilia but if a white person wants to collect those same things they are judged harshly.

The problem is the revisionist rewrite of history along with the co-opting of the flag by white supremacist groups. What we have is Southern Revisionist, and Northern enablers. The United States is the home of the brave and the land of the free. Oppression doesn't quite fit in that picture. When the Revisionist sought to rewrite history, the north went along with it. One big happy family, right? Not quite and we all know that. Still, the revisionist version of history fits better with how we view ourselves today. Yet, the truth is what it is. This country was about oppression. Oppression of the black man. And the Confederate states fought to keep that oppression. The Southern Cross was their symbol. That is the ugly truth and that is why the flag carries a double meaning. That is one of the primary reasons why the flag has been co-opted by white Supremacist groups. And, unfortunately why, in some parts of this country, those who fly the flag are looked upon as possible racist. I agree it is unfortunate.