Garrett question.

[Digginitdaily]

I started metal detecting as a child and im 35 now. I cut my teeth on tesoro and occasionally used my dads whites detector. Unfortunately tesoro is no longer in business. So about a year ago I purchased my first Garrett. It was the ace 400. I've found some really nice stuff but I still feel as if I'm still missing a lot of relics. Where I get confused is with the whole issue of iron separation idea. So if someone could explain it to me it would be appreciated. For example, if I have a silver coin and an iron nail in the same hole but also have my discrimination on so I'm not picking up iron signals how will my machine respond? Or if I have a trashy area will my machine pick up on the silver and produce a bell tone or will it bounce between a low and high tone? From what I have understood it should pick up on just one tone right ? I used a double d coil if that helps.

 

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[ticndig]

not sure about your machine , but what I can tell you is to dig those iffy signals and you'll be rewarded as many good targets are in the trash. on many sites the clear easy targets were dug long ago.

 

[Digginitdaily]

I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. See, my dad's fisher and whites will put out those iffy signals so he tends to dig them and says the same as you also... so what exactly is the target separation and how does it work ? I've downloaded the manual and watched the videos on YouTube but neither answer my question of what is it and how does it work ?

 

[Digginitdaily]

I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. See, my dad's fisher and whites will put out those iffy signals so he tends to dig them and says the same as you also... so what exactly is the target separation and how does it work ? I've downloaded the manual and watched the videos on YouTube but neither answer my question of what is it and how does it work ?

In my original post I used the example of the nail and coin... from what I understand that scenario is how the separation works. But I can't find an answer to explain it either way.. I've also noticed on the indian head penny the tones went from mid to high as it usually does with copper items which I assume is due to the alloys mixed together in the copper coin or relics ?!

 

[DIG5050]

You have a DD coil which should give you the best target separation with your machine.

I have an Ace Apex, and it tends to average down when you have iron right on top of the target. So a silver dime with a nail on top or immediately adjacent will indicate a tone and VDI lower than a silver dime by itself. If they are relatively close, side by side like a bat and ball, the Apex tends to sound and VDI indicate whichever target the detector senses first, depending on the direction and speed of sweep. If the iron “points” to the dime, like an arrow at a target, the different sounds and VDI are more distinct.

As the iron and the target move further apart, the detector responds similarly to above, until the detector can recover from one target to the other (target separation) to provide two distinctive tones and reasonably accurate VDI’s.

Your detector might behave differently, so you’ll have to test it with different scenarios as described to see how it responds. That’s why a lot of detectorists rotate on a target to see how the detector responds to determine whether to dig or not. Once you know how your Ace responds, you will become most proficient with it. That’s the way it is with all detectors.

 

[qtrs-xcite-me]

I have an AT Max that I have been using for over a year. Most of my hunts are in tot lots and I typically run in coin mode with discrimination set at 38 and 4 bars of sensitivity. Really like the performance with those settings but most tot lots are mulch filled and it is rare to have a signal more than 6 inches deep. If I get a deeper signal, I won't dig it because most have weed fabric below the mulch and I don't want to damage it. On my machine, in coin mode, I get a three tone signal - low, medium, and high. Sometimes, I decide to detect park lawn areas and other areas where I think there might be a chance for older coins. Here, I have some of the same confusion you have expressed. If I run in coin mode and bump the sensitivity all the way up, I get a lot more noise, find some deeper items - 9 to to 10 inches, but I am not finding the older coins that I would like to. So, sometimes I switch to all metal mode. In all metal mode, the default is iron discrimination off. They recommend you keep discrimination off except to clarify a target. When discrimination is turned on, the machine is essentially a two-tone machine, as I understand my instructions. I don't know how similar the Ace is in setting options, but perhaps this will help.

I don't know if I am just not finding areas to hunt with old coins present or if I haven't learned how to properly use the all metal mode. I find the additional noise of the all metal mode tiring after a while.

 

[Digginitdaily]

I bought a sniper coil because I was hunting a standing house site and it had never been hunted. When I used my standard coil I was unable to find the actual target because there were 3 sometimes more under my coil. It really made hunting in all metal impossible. Once I was uble to clear everything out with the sniper I went back through with my DD and used all metal. In the more open yard areas I used relics mode and the targets were pretty spot on as far as vdi numbers go. During use with my machine in coin mode however I've learned that it's not so great in trashy areas. For instance I was hunting the standing home I just mentioned very hard in coin mode and found several tokens, Wheaties and a indianhead. However when I went back several times I had no luck until I switched to relics mode then a few more coins popped up. The ground where I live is relatively hot so the VDI tends to read a few digits off. It'd definitely be nice if garrett had more information on the ace series to help avoid the confusion. I've probably got 2000 hours on this machine and it's still hard to understand it. Yet at the same time I've managed to dig some really nice stuff. I will say this though because I found it odd... so I good brass piece or even a Minnie ball will have a vdi of around 80 to 85 and throw a bell tone. However a week ago I dug a CS boxplate with no lead back and it only read 72 to 75 on the VDI. Luckily I dug it.

 

[ticndig]

all metal at a house site is going to be tuff , discriminator set so a Nickel sounds good is where I'd start .
I hunt a site so trashy I run 50% on my disc to cherry pick the good stuff. then you can turn it down a bit the next trip out and go again. but to hunt a house site in all metal is more work than I'm willing or able to do.

 

[cajundetector]

I started metal detecting as a child and im 35 now. I cut my teeth on tesoro and occasionally used my dads whites detector. Unfortunately tesoro is no longer in business. So about a year ago I purchased my first Garrett. It was the ace 400. I've found some really nice stuff but I still feel as if I'm still missing a lot of relics. Where I get confused is with the whole issue of iron separation idea. So if someone could explain it to me it would be appreciated. For example, if I have a silver coin and an iron nail in the same hole but also have my discrimination on so I'm not picking up iron signals how will my machine respond? Or if I have a trashy area will my machine pick up on the silver and produce a bell tone or will it bounce between a low and high tone? From what I have understood it should pick up on just one tone right ? I used a double d coil if that

I started metal detecting as a child and im 35 now. I cut my teeth on tesoro and occasionally used my dads whites detector. Unfortunately tesoro is no longer in business. So about a year ago I purchased my first Garrett. It was the ace 400. I've found some really nice stuff but I still feel as if I'm still missing a lot of relics. Where I get confused is with the whole issue of iron separation idea. So if someone could explain it to me it would be appreciated. For example, if I have a silver coin and an iron nail in the same hole but also have my discrimination on so I'm not picking up iron signals how will my machine respond? Or if I have a trashy area will my machine pick up on the silver and produce a bell tone or will it bounce between a low and high tone? From what I have understood it should pick up on just one tone right ? I used a double d coil if that helps.

I rolled with the 350 years. Don’t think it’s too much different from 400. In coin mode, iron weeded out completely. . In relic mode, I would get iron signals mixed with higher signals. When I would dig it, much of the time, it would be good iron such as railroad spikes or harness rings…..weird. I always found that the magic number was 83 or higher, regardless of mode. Still love that machine. Happy hunting!

 

[Digginitdaily]

I rolled with the 350 years. Don’t think it’s too much different from 400. In coin mode, iron weeded out completely. . In relic mode, I would get iron signals mixed with higher signals. When I would dig it, much of the time, it would be good iron such as railroad spikes or harness rings…..weird. I always found that the magic number was 83 or higher, regardless of mode. Still love that machine. Happy hunting!

I have noticed that also with the 400. Does the 350 have the ability to change frequency like the 400? If so do you think it makes a difference in the VDI numbers or when changed? I know with bottle caps that sometimes if I hit the iron audio it never grunts so I think it's a good target.

 

[DIG5050]

Like the Deus 2, Apex and the older Fisher 123x units I have, the frequency shift is most useful when encountering interference from EMI or another detector. Sometimes I have to switch to single frequency mode on the Apex if the EMI causes too much interference. It only shifts the frequency in small steps away from the center frequency of the detector. I haven’t noticed any change in the VDI on the Apex, but some have noted in other forum posts that the VDI can vary a little on the D2.

 

[cajundetector]

I have noticed that also with the 400. Does the 350 have the ability to change frequency like the 400? If so do you think it makes a difference in the VDI numbers or when changed? I know with bottle caps that sometimes if I hit the iron audio it never grunts so I think it's a good target.

No it doesn’t, unless I’m missing something. Since we’re on the subject of the ace 350 and 400, one thing I’ve noticed for sure is that you can get a good consistent, let’s say 85. If you run the coil over it and use the pin point. If it is the signal is even somewhat weak you can spend your life trying to find it, if you find it at all, and sometimes the signal is lost. This is whether deep or shallow. If it is strong/like screaming, it is usually something of shape and solid. Quarters make it scream.