GM to shut down Saturn business

[Tank69]

I wonder who is next .......


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.co...t-dispatches.aspx?post=1299249&_blg=1,1299249

 

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[Saturna]

I always wondered why Saturn was created in the first place. GM already had a lot of brands and they make another to compete with themselves?

Oldsmobile & Pontiac were old names that became part of the group a long time ago, and although it's a shame to lose these famous names, I can see trimming down. Saturn and Hummer though is a different thing altogether.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Geesh - I was just watching a Saturn commercial!!!! I mean - JUST 10 minutes ago - something like "Saturn makes the cars American's want".

No wonder car companies are going bust - the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing!

That's alot of lost jobs.

Saturn was supposed to be "the people's car", as far as being made. My daughter bought one, which was completely totalled in a 10 mph impact with a light pole. It crumbled (but the driver area was intact), and all my daughter got was a black and blue mark from the seat belt. But, 10 mph,
with no exaggeration. Insurance paid $8,000 less than what she owed on it.

She was not impressed with the way it crumbled, so she never got another one.

B

 

[Jimmy(PA)]

Haha yeah my friend had a new Saturn, he was hit on the passenger side door by a car going about 20mph and the car was totalled, I think it was less than a year old at the time. I guess they cannot withstand inpacts too well. The rest of us all had Mustangs, I still remember him trying to do front wheel burnouts with all 85 ponies under the hood. =) Before I even read your reply I was thinking of that Saturn commercial, it made it sound like they were doing pretty well, I guess not. I know Hummer was supposed to be bought by some Middle Eastern company but the Feds put a stop to that. I've been on a Mopar kick lately, they have some great engines, muscle cars, and trucks comming out, and the Jeep line is always nice.

 

[spartacus53]

So far the only manufacturer seeming to hold their own is Ford. I hope they make it though these tough times.

 

[Montana Jim]

So far the only manufacturer seeming to hold their own is Ford. I hope they make it though these tough times.

They all could have made it... and should have.

 

[Jeffro]

Best thing would've been to let them fail- no bailouts. Thats the way Capitalism is supposed to work. If you can't compete, you fail. With the bailouts, nothing has changed. And it won't, ever.


"Too big to fail", my butt.

 

[Monty]

The way I read it , Roger Penske was behind Saturn and they contracted with GM to manufacture them. They weren't an actual GM car. The contract is not going to be renewed probably and if so only a very limited amount of Saturns will be built. Read this in the morning business section of the newspaper. I don't know about Hummer. It's a big machine woefully underpowered is the biggest gripe I've heard about them. The big economy boost sure failed the auto industry. The government actually confiscated and closed down hundreds of dealerships and put several thousand people out of work. So much for adding jobs. It is my understanding the prior auto dealers who were put out of business are filing a huge law suit and plan to try to get it declared unconstitutional. We'll see. Monty

 

[Goodyguy]

The way I read it , Roger Penske was behind Saturn and they contracted with GM to manufacture them. They weren't an actual GM car. The contract is not going to be renewed probably and if so only a very limited amount of Saturns will be built. Read this in the morning business section of the newspaper. I don't know about Hummer. It's a big machine woefully underpowered is the biggest gripe I've heard about them. The big economy boost sure failed the auto industry. The government actually confiscated and closed down hundreds of dealerships and put several thousand people out of work. So much for adding jobs. It is my understanding the prior auto dealers who were put out of business are filing a huge law suit and plan to try to get it declared unconstitutional. We'll see. Monty

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/scandal-you-tell-me-sounds-pretty-fishy-to-me/blog-153513/


This could be a scandal of epic proportions
and one that makes Nixon's Watergate or
Clinton's Monica Lewinsky affair pale by comparison!!!
Why was there neither rhyme nor reason as to which dealerships
of the Chrysler Corporation were to be closed?

Roll the clock back to the weeks just before Chrysler
declared bankruptcy. Chrysler, like GM, was in dire
financial straights and federal government graciously offered to
"buy the company" and keep them out of bankruptcy and "save jobs."
Chrysler was, in the words of Obama and his administration, "Too big to
fail," same story with GM.

The feds organized their "Automotive Task Force" to
fix Chrysler and GM. Obama, in an act that is 100%
unconstitutional, appointed a guy named Steve Rattner to be the
White House's official Car Czar- literally, that's what his title is.
Rattner is the liaison between Obama, Chrysler, and GM.
Initially, the national media reported that Chrysler
had made this list of dealerships. That is not true.

The Washington Examiner, Newsmax, Fox News and a host
of other news agencies discovered that the list of
dealerships was put together by the "Automotive Task Force"
headed by none other then Mr. Steve Rattner.

Now the plot thickens. Remember earlier we said
that there was neither rhyme nor reason why
certain dealerships were closed? Actually there's a very
interesting pattern as to who was closed down.
Again, on May 27, 2009, The Washington Examiner and
Newsmax exposed the connection. Amazingly, of the 789
dealerships closed by the federal government 788 had donated
money, exclusively, to Republican political causes, while contributing
nothing to Democratic political causes. The only "Democratic" dealership
on the list was found to have donated $7,700 to "Hillary's"
campaign, and a bit over $2,000 to John Edwards. This same dealership,
reportedly, also gave $200.0020 to Obama's campaign.
Does that seem a little odd to you?

Steve Rattner, the guy who put the list together happens to be married to
Maureen White. Maureen happens to be the former national finance
chairman of the Democratic National Committee. As such, she would have
access to campaign donation records from everyone
in the nation, Republican or Democrat. But of course, this is just a
wacky coincidence, we're certain.


Then comes another really wacky coincidence. On that list of dealerships
being closed down, a weird thing happened in Arkansas, North Louisiana,
and Southern Missouri. It seems that Bill Clinton's former White House Chief
of Staff, Mack McClarty, owns a chain of dealerships in that region, partnered with a
fellow by the name of Robert Johnson. Johnson happens to be founder of
Black Entertainment Television and was a huge Obama supporter and
financier. These guys own a half dozen Chrysler stores under the company
title of RLJ-McClarty-Landers. Interestingly, none of their dealerships were ordered
closed - not one- while all of their competing Chrysler/Dodge and Jeep
dealership were! Eight dealerships located near the dealerships owned
by McClarty and Johnson were ordered shut down. Thus, by pure luck,
these two major Obama supporters now have a virtual monopoly on Chrysler
sales in their zone. Isn't that amazing

Go look in The Washington Examiner, the story's there, and it's in a dozen
or so other web-based news organizations, this isn't being made up.
Now if you thought Chrysler was owned by Fiat, you are truly mistaken.
Under the federal court ruling, 65% of Chrysler is now owned by the federal
government and the United Auto Worker's union- Fiat owns 20%. The other 15%
is till privately owned and presumably will be traded on the stock market.
Obama smiles and says he doesn't want to run the auto industry. As horrifying
as this is to comprehend, and being as how this used to be the United States of
America, it would appear that the president has the power to destroy private
businesses and eliminate upwards of 100,000 jobs, just because they don't agree
with his political agenda.


This is Nazi Germany stuff, and it's happening right here, right now, in your
back yard. There are voices in Washington demanding an explanation, but the
"Automotive Task Force" has released no information to the public or any of the
senators demanding answers for what has been done. Keep your ear to the ground
for more on this story. If you've ever wanted to make a difference about anything in
your life, get on the phone to your national senator or representative in the
House and demand an investigation on this.

Benjamin Franklin had it right when he said, "All that's necessary for evil to
triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Car Czar No More

An amazing thing happened as this story was going to press. Obama's Car Czar,
Steve Rattner, resigned on July 13 and was promptly replaced by former steel
workers union boss Ron Bloom. According to CBS News. Rattner left "to return to
private life and spend time with his family." Treasure Secretary Tim Geithner
said, "I hope that he takes another opportunity to bring his unique
skills to government service in the future." By the way, Rattner is under investigation
for a multi-million dollar pay-to-play investment bank scandal in New York.

Uh-oh! But, we're certain that had nothing to do with his resignation.
And, according to several news sources out there, there are rumors he's being
investigated for what could be pay-to-play scandal involving the closing of Chrysler
and GM dealerships. Really?

Again, that couldn't have anything to with his resignation- that's ridiculous!
Like CBS said, this guy just wants to spend more quality time with his family.
Obama has thirty-two personally appointed "czars" that answer to no one but him,
all of whom are acting without any Constitutional authority. But hey, we're sure they
all have "unique skills," as Tim Geithner likes to say.


GG~

 

[savant365]

Hey GG, I don't want to argue with anyone but Snopes says this is FALSE Snopes may be a Democratically ran site?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chrysler.asp

Charlie

 

[Monty]

Snopes is usually right about rumors at least. I don't know about this however. It stinks to high heaven and probably is not constitutional even if the kickback schemes are not true. The federal gov has no right to deprive a citizen of property under the constitution. I don't recall what section, but it is there. Monty

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Are you referring to the 5th amendment? Unlawful taking?

B



"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, NOR BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


(they get us on the "without just compensation"

 

[Goodyguy]

Hey GG, I don't want to argue with anyone but Snopes says this is FALSE Snopes may be a Democratically ran site?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chrysler.asp

Charlie

Thanks for the heads-up Charlie, I had not seen the snopes report.
It had some interesting data about the political affiliation of auto dealership owners in general that I was not aware of.

Their argument was that since more dealerships are owned by republicans in the first place that there was no real bias in the dealership closing decisions even though it appears that way.


GG~

 

[spartacus53]

I don't have any sympathy for the big three after remembering seeing the movie "Tucker, A Man and His Dreams". If you have never seen this movie I would suggest renting it, as it is very entertaining as well as informative. The long and short is that Tucker made a car that the big 3 couldn't compete against and they had their political cronies close him down. He was way ahead of his time with several inventions that in some cases are just making it to the manufacturing side today. Among some of the improvements where headlights that follow the steering wheel and he as the first to install safety glass. Too bad Tucker isn't around today, there would have been no need for a federal payout.

 

[Jeffro]

Hey GG, I don't want to argue with anyone but Snopes says this is FALSE Snopes may be a Democratically ran site?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chrysler.asp

Charlie

Thanks for the heads-up Charlie, I had not seen the snopes report.
It had some interesting data about the political affiliation of auto dealership owners in general that I was not aware of.

Their argument was that since more dealerships are owned by republicans in the first place that there was no real bias in the dealership closing decisions even though it appears that way.


GG~

Yeah, but 788 out of 789? that seems a little skewed, lol!

 

[Jimmy(PA)]

I think the long standing myth that Japanese cars are superior to American cars also helped put the nail in the coffin for the American car industry. I hear the comment all the time about how much better Japanese cars are compared to their American counterparts but very few of these people really have any basis for the argument. Sure it may have been true 20 and 30 years ago but obviously smaller cars and trucks with less power will have less issues than the v8 powered tanks rolling off American assembly lines in the 70's and 80's. I dont see any real reliability issues with todays American cars and trucks vs. the Japanese counterparts. Chrysler even has lifetime powertrain warrantys on many of its new cars, suv's, and trucks.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Unfortunately, this one is not a rumor. It's already been on CNN, Saturn's hometown newspaper, yahoo news and other spots, including the Bloomsberg channel.

And, Jimmy(Pa), you're spot on about the myth. But, it is only a myth now - when Toyota and other Japanese vehicles came across the pond, they were putting all the goodies in them, and underselling their own country to put them in the marketplace here, and we gobbled them up.
You could not buy a Toyota truck in Japan for 8 grand MORE than what we paid here - they sold them at a loss here to get their foot in the door.

Unfortunately - they were good trucks, and then, of course, they expanded their inventories on a big scale, and other brands and other countries followed suit. We, as the citizens of the US are the ones responsible for buying up other countries' goods. We bought them up, in huge numbers.
In fact, in such huge numbers, they ended up with plants here, to save shipping costs.

That's also a part of free enterprise - capitalism. If we are able to pay less for a product that is superior or at least of the same value, we do that.
It leaves us money for other things that we want. It's like the commercial for dish network - it doesn't make the product better just because we pay more money for it.

Now, personally, I don't think they are better - and I have almost always chosen a Ford, Chrysler or GM, but it is probably because it is what my grandparents did, and my parents did, and, if they break down, I know how to fix one (well, growing up - now I cannot even change spark plugs on some of them).

Add to that, the problem of American cars having foreign parts - the engine comes from one place, the seating from another, etc. Even when you DO buy american, the auto manufacturers have chosen to use less expensive components in making their cars.

http://bx.businessweek.com/us-autom...27858541919-be1788b1a21c952b4d4cb66f76f3290b/



http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/02/saturn.goodbye/index.html?section=cnn_latest

 

[Monty]

Last time I tried to work on one of my cars I had to go and buy a set of meteric tools. About half the bolts are metric sizes 'cause many of the parts were made and assembled in Canada and/or Mexico who use the metric system. I just gave up and took it to a dealer and paid the exhorbitant prices they charge. And you have to watch out even then. They wanted to change the transmission, transaxles and transfer case oil in my Durango. Told me it was mandatory to keep the warranty up to date. I checked with Chrysler and found out they recommended that service only if the Durango was having heavy use in extremely dirty and severe climatic conditions. Other wise it was permanently sealed. Would have cost me $600.00! I called them on it and there was a lot of redfaced spluttering. Being the only Chrysler and Jeep dealer in town I have to take it back there until the warranty is out, but I told them in no uncertain terms not to ever recommend any other excessive, unnecessary crap again or I would report them to the state auto commission. Just do what I tell them and keep it to themselves. Apparently they flagged my file on their computer because now it's just no sir and yes sir when I go in. American autos have improved their dependability for the most part. I remember when a car with 75 to 80 thousand miles was considered about ready for an engine rebuild. Now they usually go around 200 thousand before they are worn out. But maybe that is the improvement in the lubrication products instead of workmanship? I just know they do last longer and are more reliable. Monty

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Monty - yep - I do remember when, if you bought a car/.truck with 99,000 - it was considered ready to either dump or rebuild.

Our last 3 Ford Rangers went almost to 300,000 (one a over 340,000, one rebuild) and they still had more life in them when they were traded or sold. And, the Chrysler Voyager in my yard has 231,000, and still starts on one turn-over, and runs nice.

I had not given thought to the lubrication - all of our vehicles get oil changes and tune-ups on a regular basis, so I think I may have assumed that the regularity of changes was the reason, but you may have something on better lube quality. I do have to say that every one of our vehicles have Slick 50 in them.

We had a Jeep that, while on a prospecting trip, decided to break its fuel pump, and dumped gas into the engine. We brought it to the nearest mechanic shop, and after draining the gas and replacing the oil filter 3 times, came right back to life, with correct compression in every cylinder.
The mechanic was a tad flabbergasted, to say the least. (he suggested we try flushing before we chucked the engine). He asked us if we had
Slick 50 in the engine, because (he said) its the only thing HE knew that would take that abuse and protect the engine. It was the first time we had used it, on the advice of our home mechanic, who used it in his race cars. Since then, we have been an avid Slick 50 user.

That type of lubricant was definitely not available in the older days.

B