Going On Nox #3

[vferrari]

Likely control boxes only and from the number of issues I have seen reported on various forums, I would guess it was a good sized box. and yes, TC, I am pretty familiar with electronics and yes, the repairs from the whole country (and maybe Canada as well) all go to the same place.

I am not saying that there is an epidemic of failures, but with thousands of units sold, even a 1% failure rate would fill a box pretty quickly.

Remember, these are apparently unrepairable due to the fact that they are firmly glued together and disassembly destroys it. If it doesn’t work, it’s dead. So every one with a problem, goes in the box.

Pretty much in the ballpark, the number is something a little less than 1% as roughly estimated by ML repair and pretty much par for the course as far as modern electronics reliability goes. Just to put that "box of controllers" statement in perspective consistent with what Rick was saying.

I've also talked to ML repair (John's boss who I know personally) about what I observed on not allowing the noise cancel to fully complete causing the double button press behavior and he agrees with me that behavior I am seeing is expected and is a non-issue. To be clear, this was purely a discussion inquiring as to what I observed with my unit so that I could get confirmation from the ML repair experts that it was expected and known behavior and that my detector did not need to be sent in for troubleshooting (I was concerned that what I was seeing might be a precursor to a detector that was on the verge of failing based on what Deep was going through).

Deep1 this 30 second freeze or whatever thing you are experiencing with your 3rd unit sounds different than simply the double button press (non) issue I have observed so you again must have something else going on so let us know what John and company diagnose this time around.

 

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Hopefully you will open the 4th box and see a brand new Equinox 3200!

 

[Deep1]

So I just got off the phone with Jamie and she said it is a non issue as well.
She said their test machine does the same thing.
If it is such a non issue why were the first two machines that displayed this non issue diagnosed as defective?
If you had to 2 press on every nox built, it would be a non issue.
If you had to 2 press all the time it would be a non issue. Sometimes, I have to 2 press, others times I don't.
If I was told 2 press was not a problem, when I sent my first machine, that it is a non issue unrelated to the other issues the machine had, I might have bought it.
But now to be told this is a non issue after returning 2 confirmed defective machines, I having trouble swallowing that fish.
I sent videos to Jamie, showing her the issue, as she said they could not replicate to 2 press problem in service.
But yet, as we were speaking she had a test nox in her hand and was telling me she had to 2 press.
I'm confused.
She could not explain to me why some do it and others don't.

 

[vferrari]

So I just got off the phone with Jamie and she said it is a non issue as well.
She said their test machine does the same thing.
If it is such a non issue why were the first two machines that displayed this non issue diagnosed as defective?
If you had to 2 press on every nox built, it would be a non issue.
If you had to 2 press all the time it would be a non issue. Sometimes, I have to 2 press, others times I don't.
If I was told 2 press was not a problem, when I sent my first machine, that it is a non issue unrelated to the other issues the machine had, I might have bought it.
But now to be told this is a non issue after returning 2 confirmed defective machines, I having trouble swallowing that fish.
I sent videos to Jamie, showing her the issue, as she said they could not replicate to 2 press problem in service.
But yet, as we were speaking she had a test nox in her hand and was telling me she had to 2 press.
I'm confused.
She could not explain to me why some do it and others don't.

Deep,

Let me try to clear some things up, sometimes things get lost in translation over the phone.

First of all, your first two machines were replaced because they had legitimate issues besides the non-issue double button press thing.

As you previously described:

"The first one got to the point, bluetooth would not connect, it lost depth and the screen would fade out after a few hours. It did not start out with these issues, they developed over 3 months time." So they replaced the machine solely due to those issues. The double button press was not the reason for replacement nor was it the cause for these issues.

"The second one started with issues out of the box. It would not ground balance properly and had a high pitch noise when trying to GB in Gold1." Again, legitimate but different issues than the first and also had nothing to do with the double button press non-issue.

When you kept reporting this double button press thing, I started fooling around with my Equinox to see if I could get it to happen.
Once I figured out how to get the double button press thing to occur I could get it to happen every time I set up the conditions for it to happen. The circular bargraph makes its way around the dial during a noise cancel when all channels are being tested. At the end of the noise cancel routine it spans the entire outer display semicircle, the selected "quiet" channel number displays and then the bargraph semicircle spontaneously disappears after a second or two. Pressing a button before letting the circular bargraph graphic disappear from the screen after a noise cancel causes the screen to go into a limbo state requiring a second button press to go into detect mode or move on to the next setting parameter - ground balance. I found I could avoid it 100% of the time if I let the the circular bargraph disappear which takes a second or two after the noise cancel selects the quiet channel before I pressed ANY buttons.

If you do not let the bargraph disappear and press the detect or settings button prematurely and do nothing else, the screen will just sit there displaying the selected noise cancel channel indefinitely until you press the detect or settings button again. The screen is not frozen, it is just in a limbo state waiting for you to press the button again. If you leave the screen in the limbo state, the detector will function normally and you can actually hear targets, you just won't get target ID's appearing on the screen. If this is what you met by waiting for over 30 seconds, then that is ALSO normal behavior.

Also, I have tested this on more than one machine and I have had several other folks test this and confirm the behavior. I also confirmed it with ML repair folks. Not only does it appear to be consistent across ALL Equinox machines it also appears to be harmless and does not indicate impending failure or improper operation. It is simply a quirk of the Equinox user interface and should happen on every normally functioning Equinox.

I think what Jamie is saying it happens occasionally because it is dependent on when you do the first button press, but I think this behavior doesn't occur on just some machines, it occurs on all Equinoxes.

You previously said that I had proven nothing. I respectfully ask you to try this yourself, and if you are having trouble understanding what I am saying, PM me and I can walk you through it. But I took the time to try to diagnose your double button press issue (not my job, just wanted to get you through the issue so you could use your detector again), so please respect and try to listen to what I am trying to tell you before you fire away another dismissive response.

Hope this helps you get through this double button press thing and we can also set the record straight for others who are wondering about it and questionable Equinox reliability because they think you had 3 defective units in a row.

Want you back out there a finding goodies. Hope everything is going OK health wise too. Was sorry to hear you were laid up in the hospital.

Take care.

 

[Deep1]

Jamie was telling me she had a nox in her hand as were speaking on the phone and the machine she was holding she had to 2 press to return to detect.
I hoping she knows enough to let NC complete before pressing detect button.
No, I will let noise cancel complete before I press detect button.
As I stated before, I have waited up to 30 seconds after NC before pressing detect button and still have to 2 press.
I have always waited til NC completes before pressing detect button.
There's no doubt if you don't let NC complete, it will cause 2 press.
However that has not been the case of mine, as I let NC complete before I press detect button.
If this detector did this all the time ,it may be a non issue, but with it being intermittent I believe it is an issue.
In other words, if I had to 2 press everytime, it may be a non issue, but it doesn't happen everytime.
That shows me there is glitch somewhere in this machine.
I find it impossible to believe the 2 press is a non issue, seeing my first 2 detectors had this issue and were confirmed defective.

 

[vferrari]

Jamie was telling me she had a nox in her hand as were speaking on the phone and the machine she was holding she had to 2 press to return to detect.
I hoping she knows enough to let NC complete before pressing detect button.
No, I will let noise cancel complete before I press detect button.
As I stated before, I have waited up to 30 seconds after NC before pressing detect button and still have to 2 press.
I have always waited til NC completes before pressing detect button.
There's no doubt if you don't let NC complete, it will cause 2 press.
However that has not been the case of mine, as I let NC complete before I press detect button.
If this detector did this all the time ,it may be a non issue, but with it being intermittent I believe it is an issue.
In other words, if I had to 2 press everytime, it may be a non issue, but it doesn't happen everytime.
That shows me there is glitch somewhere in this machine.
I find it impossible to believe the 2 press is a non issue, seeing my first 2 detectors had this issue and were confirmed defective.

My two thoughts on this:

1. I do not think double button press had anything to do with your first two Equinox failures. I think you were observing the "normal" double button press behavior, but at the time did not realize it was normal so associated it with the other failures you experienced.

2. If you waited a full 30 seconds after noise cancel before pressing any buttons and still had to press the detect button twice, that indeed doesn't sound "normal". Without observing it first hand, however, I don't know what else to tell you, sorry man.

 

[Minelab Matt]

Deep,

Let me try to clear some things up, sometimes things get lost in translation over the phone.

First of all, your first two machines were replaced because they had legitimate issues besides the non-issue double button press thing.

As you previously described:

"The first one got to the point, bluetooth would not connect, it lost depth and the screen would fade out after a few hours. It did not start out with these issues, they developed over 3 months time." So they replaced the machine solely due to those issues. The double button press was not the reason for replacement nor was it the cause for these issues.

"The second one started with issues out of the box. It would not ground balance properly and had a high pitch noise when trying to GB in Gold1." Again, legitimate but different issues than the first and also had nothing to do with the double button press non-issue.

When you kept reporting this double button press thing, I started fooling around with my Equinox to see if I could get it to happen.
Once I figured out how to get the double button press thing to occur I could get it to happen every time I set up the conditions for it to happen. The circular bargraph makes its way around the dial during a noise cancel when all channels are being tested. At the end of the noise cancel routine it spans the entire outer display semicircle, the selected "quiet" channel number displays and then the bargraph semicircle spontaneously disappears after a second or two. Pressing a button before letting the circular bargraph graphic disappear from the screen after a noise cancel causes the screen to go into a limbo state requiring a second button press to go into detect mode or move on to the next setting parameter - ground balance. I found I could avoid it 100% of the time if I let the the circular bargraph disappear which takes a second or two after the noise cancel selects the quiet channel before I pressed ANY buttons.

If you do not let the bargraph disappear and press the detect or settings button prematurely and do nothing else, the screen will just sit there displaying the selected noise cancel channel indefinitely until you press the detect or settings button again. The screen is not frozen, it is just in a limbo state waiting for you to press the button again. If you leave the screen in the limbo state, the detector will function normally and you can actually hear targets, you just won't get target ID's appearing on the screen. If this is what you met by waiting for over 30 seconds, then that is ALSO normal behavior.

Also, I have tested this on more than one machine and I have had several other folks test this and confirm the behavior. I also confirmed it with ML repair folks. Not only does it appear to be consistent across ALL Equinox machines it also appears to be harmless and does not indicate impending failure or improper operation. It is simply a quirk of the Equinox user interface and should happen on every normally functioning Equinox.

I think what Jamie is saying it happens occasionally because it is dependent on when you do the first button press, but I think this behavior doesn't occur on just some machines, it occurs on all Equinoxes.

You previously said that I had proven nothing. I respectfully ask you to try this yourself, and if you are having trouble understanding what I am saying, PM me and I can walk you through it. But I took the time to try to diagnose your double button press issue (not my job, just wanted to get you through the issue so you could use your detector again), so please respect and try to listen to what I am trying to tell you before you fire away another dismissive response.

Hope this helps you get through this double button press thing and we can also set the record straight for others who are wondering about it and questionable Equinox reliability because they think you had 3 defective units in a row.

Want you back out there a finding goodies. Hope everything is going OK health wise too. Was sorry to hear you were laid up in the hospital.

Take care.

I agree...i tried and if i press detect button too fast...it take a second press for it to be ready.

Let it do its noise cancel all the way, count to 2, then you will press once and all is good.

Matt.

 

[Rick K]

User interface failure. Undocumented process, confused users.

These are SMALL BUSINESSES. They outsource production (in the case of ML) and likely other stuff like mechanical and perhaps interface design. They are under great pressure to reach market fast. Sometimes stuff gets done in ways that are not - shall we say - “optimum”.

 

[vferrari]

User interface failure. Undocumented process, confused users.

These are SMALL BUSINESSES. They outsource production (in the case of ML) and likely other stuff like mechanical and perhaps interface design. They are under great pressure to reach market fast. Sometimes stuff gets done in ways that are not - shall we say - “optimum”.

For the specific (non) issue in question, use of the term "user interface failure" is somewhat of an overstatement. Other than the OP, no one else has an issue with waiting the one second for the screen to clear to exit from this setting. Over a year and a half into the release of the Equinox, the OP is the first to even mention it. I had to try hard to find it, and, as I said, no one else seems to give it a second thought.

 

[sprailroad]

After reading all of this, I wondered, is there something wrong with MY machine, something else in the overall operation because I too have always "double pressed" pinpoint/detect button after Noise Cancel. Well no, I think everything is just dandy with it. I would noise cancel, and as soon as it was done, (still showing bar graph and number) I would press detect button, bar graph would be gone, noise cancel # would remain, press detect button again, and was good to go, never gave it any thought. So...this morning after reading all this stuff, stood up from this laptop, reached up for the EQ and turned it on, did noise cancel in my usual way, double pressed the detect button as always, tried it again only THIS time, did noise cancel, and waited a couple of seconds for bar graph to be gone (as in V's post) and only the NC number remained blinking on and off, pressed detect button ONE time, and good to go. Seems either way works just fine, only difference is perhaps I save two or three seconds of time? So I am in such a habit by now of a "double press" of the detect button that's just what I'll keep doing I'm sure. What I did was begin to read a problem into my machine that was not there to begin with. I need to stop doing that.

 

[bklein]

No one yet suggest buying one over the counter at a dealer with a hands on familiarization/checkout no charge?

 

[smokeythecat]

I have always suggested "test driving" one at a dealer's before you but a machine. ANY MACHINE. It's like Goldilocks and the porridge thing all over again, (this or that machine) is too heavy, doesn't come in orange, has too small or big a coil, doesn't find gold all by itself, doesn't have a 300 year warranty, and yes I'm making this up and I go along and on and on and on.

ANY MACHINE ANY MANUFACTURER.

Unfortunately, even I'm having problems with that now. The last two I purchased were from a local dealer. He went out of business in 2018. Bummer.

 

[vferrari]

No one yet suggest buying one over the counter at a dealer with a hands on familiarization/checkout no charge?

I have always suggested "test driving" one at a dealer's before you but a machine. ANY MACHINE. It's like Goldilocks and the porridge thing all over again, (this or that machine) is too heavy, doesn't come in orange, has too small or big a coil, doesn't find gold all by itself, doesn't have a 300 year warranty, and yes I'm making this up and I go along and on and on and on.

ANY MACHINE ANY MANUFACTURER.

Unfortunately, even I'm having problems with that now. The last two I purchased were from a local dealer. He went out of business in 2018. Bummer.

All good advice, but jn the OP's case, it wouldn't have mattered. His problems didn't start until he had the first machine for over a month. The subsequent machines came from ML repair. Also, in many areas of the country, you may not have access to a local dealer to do a test drive.

 

[smokeythecat]

Yeah V, in the last few years the two best and closest dealers closed up shop.

 

[vferrari]

Troubling sign for the hobby. These are shops that have been around for decades and there doesn't seem to be folks who want to buy these established brick and mortar showroom detector businesses and instead subscribe to simply a web presence with no inventory and drop shipping.

Nothing inherently wrong with that, just makes it hard for folks to find a local or reguonal dealer and establish a relationship of trust. I am fortunate to have a dealer I personally know and trust.

 

[smokeythecat]

I would probably have to drive to Philadelphia or the New York City area to test drive any new machine. Which I will do to keep from making another detector mistake.

I have bought a few "special use" machines in the past, and a couple water machines then decided to not do the water.

Of course V and I have gone off topic...