Gold....ore, or Gold Arsenopyrite

[Just_curious]

Hey everybody, looking for some advice/identification please. A little back story on this. I bought a gold monster 1000 and went prospecting last weekend. After a few days of searching creeks, I ended up going to an abandoned hard rock mine and detecting the rock piles. This made my detector hit hard, but for an ferrous target. It would flicker between ferrous and non-ferrous. I turned on the discrimination, and scanned it again and still made my detector go off, but as a non-ferrous target. This (and a few others) were extremely heavy...more than your average rock. Well I finally cracked it open and cleaned them today and feel confident that it isn't all pyrite. I originally thought it was both silver and gold, as both are around the area. Now i believe it is gold arsenopyrite. I researched the mine data, and the commodities listed were arsenopyrite, scheelite, ilmenite, quartz, hornblend, and galena. I have already took a tool to it, and it didn't break, but scratched/dented. Let me know what you all think. The first pic is similar to what the rock looked like, but is different (another one that set off the detector. Sorry for all the pics, I just think it's cool and exciting. It's a beautiful rock! Any pic that has a size and weight reference, is the beginning of that rock. Barely any were visible on the outside. All exposed after breaking, and further more after cleaning. If this indeed gold/arsenopyrite, what would be the best/safest way for gold recovery as a back yard or in a forest away from everything (trying to keep others and the environment as safe as possible bit maximize the % recovered.
(similar to original)
specimen 1 (size reference)
specimen 1 (weight)
specimen 1
specimen 1

Can attach more if need be. I took a BUNCH of pics, some better than others.

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[Assembler]

Interesting and thank you for the pictures. Don't know that much about this keep us updated.

 

[Just_curious]

What I am finding through research, is that arsenopyrite creates a harmfull toxic gas when baked/roasted, but will not if dissolved in nitric acid. I am seeing that arsenopyrite will dissolve in nitric acid, but gold will not. Gold will however dissolve in nitric acid+hydrochloric acid(aqua regina). Both are simple and cheap to make at home and don't require ordering online & licenses . Although both mixtures can be dangerous if not handled with care, neither compare to the toxic fumes from the Arsenopyrite. So, I could either just try to use nitric acid and dissolve the arsenopyrite and see what I'm left with, or use the aqua Regina (Nitric acid & hydrochloride acid) to dissolve the arsenopyrite, as well as the gold. With everything dissolved, I should be able to precipitate the gold out of it in order to recover more. I could also repeat the process multiple times for the greatest yield. When finished, I should be able to neutralize the acids for safe disposal with baking soda, which in turn is perfectly acceptable to pour down the drain (according to EPA?) If it is not that simple, or I have everything w romg, please let me know. I abbreviated this from my research of course. My only concern is precipitating multiple alloys and not getting the pure gold...which in turn I suppose could be thrown into my foundry and fluxed for separation, or heated to different melting points to leave other alloys behind?

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[Mad Machinist]

Arsenopyrite when broken down creates arsenic, which is considered hazardous waste and is expensive to deal with. Dumping it down the drain WILL result in your property being listed as a Superfund site with you being responsible for a very expensive clean up process.

Aqua regia is a very dangerous substance to deal with in the best of days. If you get any of it in your skin, it WILL burn you to the bone rather quickly. The fumes from aqua regia will corrode any metal they come in contact with.

Dealing with arsenopyrite is very rarely straight forward nor is it a cheap way to get gold. There are a lot of very complex chemical reactions that need to be dealt with in a proper manner. The only effective way several others and I have found to deal with arsenopyrite is bioleaching. It permanently locks up the arsenic in a stable form that is not be=reakable by any natural means.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/h...g-arsenopyrite-other-sulphide-based-ores.html

 

[Chiltepin]

Chalcocite, Chalcopyrite?

 

[Just_curious]

I got that info from this. I'm not talking about dumping the straight solution down the drain, but the neutralized acid. Pretty interesting read https://sciencing.com/refine-gold-nitric-acid-10036480.html

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[Just_curious]

Along with this. The way I read this, arsenopyrite is only hazardous when heated and fumes are able to release in the air, but when dissolved in nitric acid, converts into sulfer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenopyrite

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[Mad Machinist]

Along with this. The way I read this, arsenopyrite is only hazardous when heated and fumes are able to release in the air, but when dissolved in nitric acid, converts into sulfer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenopyrite

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When arsenopyrite is dissolved in nitric acid, it releases elemental sulfur. The arsenic is still there as a base element and has to be dealt with.

 

[Assembler]

In looking at a fire Assay book. The recommended method for removing arsenic is a "Scorification Assay" using a lot of lead mixed in with the powdered Ore. There is also used a "Lead Flux" mixture of Sodium bicarbonate, Potassium carbonate, Borax-glass, Flour, and silica from powdered sand. None of this sounds very safe in this day in age.

 

[Just_curious]

When arsenopyrite is dissolved in nitric acid, it releases elemental sulfur. The arsenic is still there as a base element and has to be dealt with.

And how would one go about dealing with it. I figured arsenic was only an issue one oxidized or ingested.

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[Just_curious]

Well, I haven't been chewed out or mocked yet....does that mean that everybody agrees (at least from the photo's), that this is indeed some gold ore varient?

 

[bobw53]

Well, I haven't been chewed out or mocked yet....does that mean that everybody agrees (at least from the photo's), that this is indeed some gold ore varient?

This is where that "research" thing comes in... What is the gold traveling in in the area that you found that??

If you posted up your location, somebody familiar with the location could probably say yes or no... If you are local to me, I could tell you
with 99.9% certainty that there is no gold in that rock.. 200 miles to the west, it could be a totally different story.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

And how would one go about dealing with it. I figured arsenic was only an issue one oxidized or ingested.

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You can absorb it through your skin by handling. The mining partner who isn't on here found out the hard way after he was cleaning some samples and his hands started tingling. Took him a few weeks to get over it. Had he not sent a text photo of what he was doing I wouldn't have been able to tell him to stop immediately, and he probably would've ended up dead.

If you ever taste almonds after handling samples, you've got arsenic poisoning. Freshly broken open it smells like rank garlic. Dirt with it in it smells the same. Our Green Mountain pit reeks of it if you dig down a foot or so.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Get a fire assay from a reputable assayer. Anything else at this stage is a waste of time and could be very dangerous.

I've seen ore very similar to yours. It looks like Chalcopyrite (Copper) with Galena (Lead) to my eye. By eye from a photo I don't see any evidence of gold mineralization. Doesn't mean there isn't a possibility of gold in the ore but I'm not seeing anything in the photos that would lead me to think there was gold.

The only way you will know for sure is a fire assay. $50 and you will know if it's good ore worth mining.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Along with this. The way I read this, arsenopyrite is only hazardous when heated and fumes are able to release in the air, but when dissolved in nitric acid, converts into sulfer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenopyrite

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Sulfur and Arsenic are both elements. Short of Atomic decay one element can not be converted to another element. When you break the bonds of Arsenopyrite the elements remaining are still going to be Iron, Sulfur and Arsenic - not just Sulfur. Neutralizing the pH of the Nitric Acid will leave you with an Arsenic rich solution with a different pH. Still a very dangerous mixture.

Dissolving Arsenopryite in Nitric Acid will produce non-soluble elemental sulfur. That Sulfur easily reacts with the gold fractions when thiosulphates are formed. Thiosulfates dissolve gold. Then you end up with a Sulfur insoluble residue and gold in Nitric/Sulfuric/Arsenic/Iron solution that is best recovered with - cyanide and electrolysis.

So you can't heat the stuff in the presence of oxygen or you kill yourself and your neighbors.
You can recover as much as 75% (or as little as 20%) of the gold (depending on the ore composition) with large quantities of Nitric Acid, Cyanide, and neutralizer. But you end up with piles of toxic Sulfur, stinky acidified Iron solutions and poisonous Arsenic.

Now you see why there have been very few profitable Arsenopyrite mining recovery operations in history. In the good old days when your workers died you said "aw shucks" and hired some more eager fools. Today that stuff doesn't fly where you and I live.

Get the assay. You probably have copper ore with some complex Iron Sulfides. That stuff can make you rich in quantity.

Heavy Pans

 

[Just_curious]

Dang. Sounds like I'm S.O.L. What effect does elctrolyisis have on the arsenic? I would imagine nothing, but it still is heating it to a certain extent and that electricity is probably making it's way down to the lowest molecular lever. I read some reports online when the arsenopyriten is LOADED with gold, and these reports contain a whole bunch of tests trying to find a better way to recover other than heat, cyanide, mercury, etc....so if there is all these reports, and people chasing a solution, is that because there is actually a good quantity of gold within it. And as far as the copper, the rock in the picture titled "similar to original" had visible copper. Looks pretty cool

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[Assembler]

Dang. Sounds like I'm S.O.L. What effect does elctrolyisis have on the arsenic? I would imagine nothing, but it still is heating it to a certain extent and that electricity is probably making it's way down to the lowest molecular lever. I read some reports online when the arsenopyriten is LOADED with gold, and these reports contain a whole bunch of tests trying to find a better way to recover other than heat, cyanide, mercury, etc....so if there is all these reports, and people chasing a solution, is that because there is actually a good quantity of gold within it. And as far as the copper, the rock in the picture titled "similar to original" had visible copper. Looks pretty cool

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This is one reason many people will pass on it.

Even if one reads about that there can be a lot of "Values per ton" one still has to prove what the ore you are handling has enough "Values per ton by fire Assays". This is not something one does in there garage plus should be done by third party independent of you as proof. The "Values may come and go" as well in the ground. Would be nice to find a "Assayer" that take payment in "Values".

 

[Just_curious]

Man, all the stuff that I'm reading says that there's a good amount in arsenopyrite. Too bad a better method couldn't be figured out.

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[Assembler]

Man, all the stuff that I'm reading says that there's a good amount in arsenopyrite. Too bad a better method couldn't be figured out.

A "Fire Assay" will help one to determine how much values there is per "Ton Assay". You may be able to sell to others that can handle the ore.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Man, all the stuff that I'm reading says that there's a good amount in arsenopyrite. Too bad a better method couldn't be figured out.

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A better method has been found. www.treasurenet.com/forums/hard-roc...g-arsenopyrite-other-sulphide-based-ores.html

And this method is in use around the world and is being further researched daily.