Help identifying eagle engraving on 1700’s spoon.

[luke_00]

So I’ve had this spoon for a while now. Found it cleaning out an estate. I think it’s a stuffing spoon. Measures a l little over 12”. The date letter says it was made in 1798 but I’m not too sure who made it. It’s marked with NH. It has an engraved eagle facing left with what looks to be a bucket in its mouth. Just wondering if the eagle stands for something or symbolizes something. If anyone might know it would be a big help. Thanks!

 

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[EQ8]

So I’ve had this spoon for a while now. Found it cleaning out an estate. I think it’s a stuffing spoon. Measures a l little over 12”. The date letter says it was made in 1798 but I’m not too sure who made it. It’s marked with NH. It has an engraved eagle facing left with what looks to be a bucket in its mouth. Just wondering if the eagle stands for something or symbolizes something. If anyone might know it would be a big help. Thanks!

Try 925-1000 dot com and look for English marks.

 

[DCMatt]

Naphthali Hart. The 'C' mark on yours looks like London date mark 1798. But that seems a bit early for Hart.
[h=5][/h]

 

[Bramblefind]

I think that eagle is a heraldry symbol like you would see on a livery button etc.. It is similar to this associated with the Arkwright family.

A crest used by Robert Arkwright, Esq. of Sutton Scarsdale and Willersley, Derby.
The crest is described as "an eagle, rising (in beak an escutcheon, pendant by ribbon, charged with a hank of cotton)".


ARKWRIGHT Family Crest

 

[Red-Coat]

Good spoon.

The hallmark is for sure London assay, 1798 which means the maker was not Naphtali Hart. He was in partnership with Duncan Urquhart at the time and they registered a series of marks as 'DU above NH' in 1791, 1795, 1801 and 1812, extending their wares each time they registered (starting as “bucklemakers” and with their final mark as “plateworkers”. Hart did not have a solo mark registered under his own name (as NH) until April 1812.

There are rare instances on English silver of the assayer either inadvertently selecting the wrong punch (correct letter, but wrong style) and also instances where a punch was broken and a lazy assayer used the nearest available. As well as happening only rarely, there are other reasons why I’m sure that wasn’t the case here (ie it's not the lower case 'c' which would be for 1818).

I think the mark you’re reading as ‘NH’ is actually ‘HN’. There were two makers using an 'HN' mark in 1798: Henry Nutting (registered in April 1796) and Hannah Northcote (registered in June 1798). The similarity of their marks has created uncertainty about attributing pieces, but on balance I think this will be by Northcote, since she had been married to a spoonmaker before registering her own mark after his death. Nutting was more famed for larger prestige pieces such as tea/coffee pots, salvers, jugs and such… but it could be either.

In the picture below from a hallmarking website, the Nutting/Northcote mark is shown upside down so that it appears to read ‘NH’ (even expert websites get it wrong sometimes):



You can confirm this by looking at the serifs on the N letters and comparing to your own as shown below. The final limb of the N has no serif at the bottom when it’s the right way up. Note your mark also has a stop between the two letters, but neither of these marks have that. These kinds of minor variations are not uncommon on early marks.



What you have is generally known as a “stuffing spoon” and used for removing the stuffing from turkeys or game birds at the table, but also commonly used as a buffet serving spoon. They usually measure 12-13 inches in length.

The bird engraving will be a family crest, but I think it more likely to be a falcon/hawk rather than an eagle. It’s not Arkwright since the bird isn’t ‘rising’, and I haven’t spent much time looking, but I think it may be Hadley… for which the crest on the armorial is a falcon holding a buckle in its beak, as shown atop the shield here:

 

[Bramblefind]

This is what started me on Arkwright - I thought it looked very close-

https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/birds

 

[Red-Coat]

This is what started me on Arkwright - I thought it looked very close-

I stand corrected. I believe you're correct and I should have looked more closely! The bird is indeed rising, not static as I thought when I took a quick look. Thanks, and my apologies.

 

[luke_00]

Good spoon.

The hallmark is for sure London assay, 1798 which means the maker was not Naphtali Hart. He was in partnership with Duncan Urquhart at the time and they registered a series of marks as 'DU above NH' in 1791, 1795, 1801 and 1812, extending their wares each time they registered (starting as “bucklemakers” and with their final mark as “plateworkers”. Hart did not have a solo mark registered under his own name (as NH) until April 1812.

There are rare instances on English silver of the assayer either inadvertently selecting the wrong punch (correct letter, but wrong style) and also instances where a punch was broken and a lazy assayer used the nearest available. As well as happening only rarely, there are other reasons why I’m sure that wasn’t the case here (ie it's not the lower case 'c' which would be for 1818).

I think the mark you’re reading as ‘NH’ is actually ‘HN’. There were two makers using an 'HN' mark in 1798: Henry Nutting (registered in April 1796) and Hannah Northcote (registered in June 1798). The similarity of their marks has created uncertainty about attributing pieces, but on balance I think this will be by Northcote, since she had been married to a spoonmaker before registering her own mark after his death. Nutting was more famed for larger prestige pieces such as tea/coffee pots, salvers, jugs and such… but it could be either.

In the picture below from a hallmarking website, the Nutting/Northcote mark is shown upside down so that it appears to read ‘NH’ (even expert websites get it wrong sometimes):

View attachment 1827041

You can confirm this by looking at the serifs on the N letters and comparing to your own as shown below. The final limb of the N has no serif at the bottom when it’s the right way up. Note your mark also has a stop between the two letters, but neither of these marks have that. These kinds of minor variations are not uncommon on early marks.

View attachment 1827042

What you have is generally known as a “stuffing spoon” and used for removing the stuffing from turkeys or game birds at the table, but also commonly used as a buffet serving spoon. They usually measure 12-13 inches in length.

The bird engraving will be a family crest, but I think it more likely to be a falcon/hawk rather than an eagle. It’s not Arkwright since the bird isn’t ‘rising’, and I haven’t spent much time looking, but I think it may be Hadley… for which the crest on the armorial is a falcon holding a buckle in its beak, as shown atop the shield here:

View attachment 1827043

Thank you so much for your research on my piece. I enjoyed reading it! What do you think its worth? I wouldn't have a clue. Thanks again!

 

[luke_00]

This is what started me on Arkwright - I thought it looked very close-

https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/birds

Thanks for the info! Been a big help!

 

[Red-Coat]

Thank you so much for your research on my piece. I enjoyed reading it! What do you think its worth? I wouldn't have a clue. Thanks again!

You're welcome. There's one at the link below from a different maker, with a 1790 hallmark, priced at £125 ($154). I think that would be a fair retail price here, but probably in America an antiques seller might be pushing for $200:

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/760...MI_Z_Ooc2B6QIVmLp3Ch06lgoSEAQYAiABEgIGFPD_BwE

The seller says "the handle is engraved with a crest, possibly a bird of prey (Falcon/Eagle?)" although he doesn't actually picture it. It's a matter of opinion whether engraved silver has a lower desirability than unengraved. Personally I think it's more desirable providing it's something generic and not overtly personal. Purist silver collectors might disagree.

 

[luke_00]

You're welcome. There's one at the link below from a different maker, with a 1790 hallmark, priced at £125 ($154). I think that would be a fair retail price here, but probably in America an antiques seller might be pushing for $200:

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/760...MI_Z_Ooc2B6QIVmLp3Ch06lgoSEAQYAiABEgIGFPD_BwE

The seller says "the handle is engraved with a crest, possibly a bird of prey (Falcon/Eagle?)" although he doesn't actually picture it. It's a matter of opinion whether engraved silver has a lower desirability than unengraved. Personally I think it's more desirable providing it's something generic and not overtly personal. Purist silver collectors might disagree.

Thanks again for the info. Really helped me out!

 

[A2coins]

Awesome spoon there are some really smart folks here amazing ID