Help with age?

[StormSurge]

Is there a way to lD the exact age of this?
I found it earlier this week and posted it in Todays Finds.
Crusader confirmed what I found out, that it is early to mid 1700's
and that I should ask y'all on the Cob's forum.
Any help and info. Is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!​

 

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[Mackaydon]

I believe it's a 'two bits' coin (1/4 of an 8-reales coin). The coin would date from the period 1705-1723. The assayer's initial, "J", represented Jose Eustaquio de Leon, the assayer during that period and the assayer for most of the Mexican silver coins salvaged from the 1715 fleet.
Don.....

 

[StormSurge]

Thanks Mackaydon , I was thinking that from 100+ views on this post I would get a few replies? Guess Not!
The information that you gave me should help me to learn a little more. I've been down to the Treasure Coast area several times and three since August and would love to find time to search for some of that 1715 Fleet Treasure. With
all of the MD'ers and Divers down there this may be as close as I get to finding any.
Anyway thanks for the reply! I really enjoy reading your posts and your infinite knowledge, especially on coins.

 

[Diver_Down]

Your 100+ views in which 20 of them were mine. You have an interesting piece. Don posted his opinion, but I respectfully disagree. He knows more about Spanish Colonial coinage than I, but these are some of my observations.

First, It is a piece of milled coinage. Mexico City mint was producing cob coinage at the time up until 1733 with a transitional period between Pillar Dollars in which Klippe types were produced. Obviously, yours doesn't fall in that time period for Mexico City.

Second, the main clue that we have is the assayer 'J'. Tracking down the assayer is the key. Looking closely, the 'J' is unique with a fat stem with a small hook and small cap. Looking closer, there are some remnants of the coin's devices before cutting where the denomination would be. The problem is that the remnant of a stem with a short foot doesn't match any denomination that would be cut. But it does match another assayer of 'P'.

In summary, it is my opinion that you have a piece that was minted in Seville, Spain in the same time period. The dual assayers are 'P' / 'J' which stand for Pedro Remigio Gordillo - José Antonio Fabra. The earliest the dual assayer P/J show up are 1737, but the 'J' doesn't match that year's production. Beginning in 1738 until 1748, the 'J' style matches. The two produced together until 1757.

 

[Mackaydon]

Storm Surge,
What is the length of each straight side--in mm? That should tell us the denomination, for starters.
'Diver Down', you may be spot on. I will say that Mexico City was also producing milled coins back to at least 1714, as noted in this site with the assayer I referenced (scroll down to Silde 12): The 1715 Fleet Society
Yes, I note that the above reference is to a gold coin, NWS.
As to matching the 'remnant' with a particular denomination, we can eliminate all but one denomination once we know the diameter of the coin (in MMs); ergo, the Q to Storm Surge.
Whatever this coin turns out to be has been an interesting exercise in the research--keeping my mind off the flu--now in the 4th day.
Don..

 

[Diver_Down]

Don, get well. The denomination question is a big one. It is why I didn't commit to a denomination. I just said a "piece". Typically, an 8 Reale was used to make into smaller denominations as you suggested with 2 bits. What doesn't make sense, is to dice up an already small denomination.

Additional pictures with another fixed object would help. Size measurements along with weight will go a long way in solving the mystery.

For future reference, Spain Coins, sort by year - The Coin Database provides images (not all) of various coins produced at the respective mints.

 

[StormSurge]

Your 100+ views in which 20 of them were mine. You have an interesting piece. Don posted his opinion, but I respectfully disagree. He knows more about Spanish Colonial coinage than I, but these are some of my observations.

First, It is a piece of milled coinage. Mexico City mint was producing cob coinage at the time up until 1733 with a transitional period between Pillar Dollars in which Klippe types were produced. Obviously, yours doesn't fall in that time period for Mexico City.

Second, the main clue that we have is the assayer 'J'. Tracking down the assayer is the key. Looking closely, the 'J' is unique with a fat stem with a small hook and small cap. Looking closer, there are some remnants of the coin's devices before cutting where the denomination would be. The problem is that the remnant of a stem with a short foot doesn't match any denomination that would be cut. But it does match another assayer of 'P'.

In summary, it is my opinion that you have a piece that was minted in Seville, Spain in the same time period. The dual assayers are 'P' / 'J' which stand for Pedro Remigio Gordillo - José Antonio Fabra. The earliest the dual assayer P/J show up are 1737, but the 'J' doesn't match that year's production. Beginning in 1738 until 1748, the 'J' style matches. The two produced together until 1757.

Diver_Down,
Coins and particularly Spanish Silver are something that I need a lot of "Schooling" on. Not knowing much about these coins and not having but what appears to be 1/4 of the original coin has left my research vague. I appreciate you chiming in on my question and Mackaydons response.

Hopefully I can post more information, such as you and Mackaydon have requested, in the next few days. I need to get dial calipers and a digital scale. I also have to get a new battery for my Jeep and that is the priority this morning. My other delay in posting is that the place that I found this piece is being paved and I'm told a three level parking garage will be built on this site. I was also told that construction will start very soon and I think that the weather is the only thing that has held it up this long. So as you can imagine, any free time that I have had I am diligently searching this spot.

Please stay with me on this as I find your and Mackaydons discussion fascinating. If this piece was minted in Spain is my assumption correct that most coinage from this time period and minted in Spain did not travel to the Colonies? Also do either of y'all have a suggestion on preservation on this piece? It is starting to oxidize and take on a brown patina.

Again, Thank You Both Diver_Down and Mackaydon for your diligence and helping those of us who need and appreciate it!

Barry

 

[Mackaydon]

Hello Barry,
You need not get any equipment; simply place a US coin (cent?) next to your 'piece' and retake the pic for us. We'll figure out the diameter of your original coin and thereby solve the denomination and weight questions.
Don.....

 

[StormSurge]

Don, Hope y'all can see these OK for a size comparison. It's quit a bit bigger than a penny. I also compared it to a U.S. Quarter and it appears to be a little bigger in diameter that that. It seems to be about 1/2 to 2/3's the thickness of the Quarter also.







I got out to the same spot for less than two hours before the snow started and pulled this out of the ground. You or Diver_Down have any ideas on what it is? Seems like I've seen one but haven't been able to find anything on it yet.


Thanks, Barry

 

[Mackaydon]

In round numbers, the US cent is 19 mm in diameter; a US quarter is 24+mm. A Mexican 2 reales from the period of Felipe V is 28 mm (a 1R is only 20 mm)--so I believe you have a quarter of a 2R, equal to a 1/2R

 

[Diver_Down]

In round numbers, the US cent is 19 mm in diameter; a US quarter is 24+mm. A Mexican 2 reales from the period of Felipe V is 28 mm (a 1R is only 20 mm)--so I believe you have a quarter of a 2R, equal to a 1/2R

I agree. And the new find is also a 1/2 reale. Looks like you stumbled on some pocket change. Best of luck in finding the rest.