Highlights from the summer of 2010 - Part 2

[bobsphotogallery]

more of the booty!

 

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[Lucas]

Any mark on the cartouche knife? What do you think the filler was on that one? I have seen (in the books) leather, horn, wood, tortoise shell listed.

RC ear wheel... OMG!

Steel tobacco box, a RARE survivor.

Sweet bracelet.

 

[bobsphotogallery]

No marks on the knife blade .. I suspect it was one of the early French made ones .. it came from a mid 1700's site .. it appears to have been filled with pewter..or a silver / pewter mix.. I would think it was an after market modification. :P I have found a few of these with bits of some type of hide in the middle.

 

[Lucas]

Pewter? That is interesting.

AFAIK these were only Brit knives. Yours is early, a close match to the Caldwell knife, c. 1780:

 

[bobsphotogallery]

Really? Only the Brits? do you have any documentation that you can refer me to?
Thanks
Bob

 

[Lucas]

Well, yes, that is the scholarly consensus. For 3 reasons: when they are from tightly dated sites, they are Brit era sites, when they have marks, they are only Brit marks, and 3rd it is a know Brit type.

Refs:

Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly, v. 23, No. 2, Summer 1987. "The Cartouche Knife" By Charles Hanson. Pp. 1-4.

Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook by James Hanson. He dates them 1780–1825. Definitely not French era.

There are plenty of these knives from late sites, as far away as Rocky Mountain House, that prove they are Brit. The only mention of French I have seen is in Stone, where he says the scales "might represent French clasp knives." Well, you know how rare these are as clasp knives, and the 2 I have seen had Brit blades. The cartouche knife in general (all handle types) is not associated with French posts, or like French-era-only Native sites.

Quimby doesn't have much on knives. Too bad.

If you have Brit marks I can ID them with a maker name and even date some of them. If I can't I know 2 people who can. Except that one with the crown and a plus and cross keys. Yeah you know that one. Its Brit but nobody has tracked that one down yet. It shows up before 1781 and as late as 1804-5. Maybe a London mark they don't have their records anymore. Sheffield does.

 

[John Tanner]

Nice finds-I have a similar box that had a striker, four flints and deteriorated organic material no doubt used for starting the fire-I always thought they were tinder boxes because a friend has one that just had 1 flint and a striker. Is it known as a tobacco box?

JT

 

[Lucas]

Yes in the inventories they are called tobacco boxes. But you still needed to light your pipe.

The Brit ones were mostly made in Birmingham.

 

[John Tanner]

thanks

John

 

[Produce Guy]

Dude you hit a honey hole!

 

[ColonialDude]

wow I am speechless! Fantastic finds as usual!

I have to admit, that pic with the rings in the first sure gets my blood pumping!! How many were in that hole!?!?

Thanks for sharing your finds!

 

[bobsphotogallery]

Thank you ... well what is interesting is you can find the stray 1 or 2 ring drop.. but more than not we will find 5 in a hole ... one time I got to number 6 and realized there was going to be 10 ...and there was!! ... it is my best guess that they were changing over to nicer newer rings ... and these were left to return to the earth.
Best Regards
Robert

 

[Lucas]

Another great bunch o' stuff this week. Better than TV!

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Good stuff BOB

 

[j brown]

Bob, on the brass filigree handled cartouche knife being British only. I don't know, but there's a thread on Frontierfolks forum where a guy who seriously studies these things says he's seen them listed as early as 1741 in a FRENCH Montreal trade list, but the British later began producing them.

Pichou-Lucas Roy, i got this info from the FF forum recently, if you want to go check it out.

jb