I Was Going To

[Grafixwild]

Post this in the "head to head Comparison" thread but thought it better here.

Ok, here it is. I have spent countless hours lurking in forums, reading reviews, watching Utube vids, and reading owners manuals. I live in Colorado where the park rangers are very good about letting people "clean up the beaches" and have family close to Galveston which I visit at length several times a year. Closer to home I have never seen anyone detect in the water so I definately want a water machine. It's been a toss up between getting both a Sand and Tiger Shark or an Excalibur II. Regardless of the flaws of the Excal. I think that's the machine that would suit my needs best. It's said the Excalibur does just fine in freshwater, that's important as it would be used more there than anywhere else. I'm musically inclined and run my 705, all metal in 99 tones. Learning the Excal's music will come to me.

So despite my main area of hunting, having to buy a Plugger 3-piece travel shaft with hip mount, extra knobs, knob guard, a real battery charger, scoop of course, and down the road an extra battery pack (not AA) I think the Excal is the ticket. I'm not fond of Kellyco's freebees they're offering a 1 year extended warranty right now and that is appealing (hint hint to other venders).

I have a pretty good handle on the pros and cons of each machine and not really looking for Tesoro vs Minelab but rather what's best for my situation. I should mention the 705 will be used on dry sand and whatever I end up with will be for wet sand to waist or so deep water. Am I thinking this right or....

Thanks for any advise
Phil

 

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[cdv1]

Can't tell you about Minelab products yet since I don't own one but I am about to order an Sov. GT to add to the stable of detectors... Here is just a thought.... buying a Sand Shark and a Tiger Shark now gives you two water detectors that could share the accessories (both would fit the same hip mount bag, straight shaft IF you bought one etc.) IF one would break, you could still hunt the water with the other one and the guarantee is better with Tesoro.

Just something to think about..... but those Excal boys and girls sure can bring in the finds!

No matter what you get, the bottom line is use it and learn it. I think that is more important than it being "the best" one out there.... Tiger Woods could kick my butt golfing with only a 9 iron even IF I had the best bag of clubs made.

 

[Sandman]

The Excal is great in fresh or saltwater as it ignors the salt mineral and black sand together. It will also report on a gold ring under an iron nail unlike other VLF's. The extra year warranty that mail order place offers is Minelab's warranty, not Kellyco's. The Tiger Shark is also a great freshwater detector but not so good in the saltwater and is half the price and the warrany is lifetime. I've never had to use it and used to take the Tiger diving. The Tiger Shark can also find those thin gold chains. The Sand Shark is a pulse unit which has very little disc and would drive you crazy digging hairpins and bread wrapper ties in freshwater while in the salt these items rust quickly. The Sand Shark is deeper than the Excal which is what you want at the salt beaches but again you can quickly use up your detecting time digging huge holes. But hey, that's what its about.

You should also look into the CZ-21 for fresh or salt and does good on land because of a good pinpoint. Also the less expensive 1280 is good for fresh water, but not in the wet salt at most locations.

The you don't have to worry about learning the Excal's tones really as if you get the mid tone most likely it is either a pulltab, nickel or yellow gold ring. Smaller white gold usually sounds like foil.

Good Luck,
Sandman

 

[stevemc]

I agree with all Sandman said, except about the iron things rusting away quickly in saltwater. I have seen you post this statement before and it is incorrect. They dont corrode away quickly, in fact I have found iron nails 200+ years old in fine condition in saltwater. They have found iron hammer heads from the 1715 fleet in great shape, in the saltwater. Aluminum is the same way, some people think that you can throw aluminum or iron things in the sea, and they will corrode quickly-WRONG! The iron will corrode away once it is taken out of the water and kept in a humid area, or even in a dry area. The salts in the iron will make it fall right apart. It needs oxygen to keep corroding. Air, out in the air, water doesnt have enough to make that happen fast, especially if buried under the sand or mud. Iron or stainless steel or aluminum will corrode away fast in fresh or salt water if in touch with other more noble metals because of the dissimilar metal problem, ion exchange.

 

[Sandman]

Steve, I meant the small things like hairpins. Still a pulse will find the small iron too.

 

[stevemc]

Yes, a PI will find super tiny stuff and very deep too. I know I own 4 PIs, and have dug some huge holes. And when you find a hairpin, it will often slide right through the holes in the scoop. It wont be in the hole when you check, so you know its in the scoop, and it keeps going to the bottom. Scoop and drop, scoop again, crazy. Same thing with tiny pieces of aluminum cans, they actually float across the surface of the sand. Very frustrating. A VLF or BBS will tell you if its iron. I have an Excal and it will tell me if its iron. It also isnt as deep on all hits as a PI probably 1/2 as deep, but a gold ring wont beep deep on any type (foot or more) unless its a honker. So if I have a hole a foot plus deep with my PI, I usually give up, its probably a can or something big. The Excal I usually dont dig a foot deep. But many people use PIs, I have for many years, and do well with them. But to not have to dig iron is the feature that I like about the Excal. Everything will be non-ferrous, not iron, aluminum mainly, coins, lead and silver and gold. After much use, you can tell the difference of those items, somewhat. And if big enough size too. But it is safer to dig all, because as Sandman said, white gold can sound like a pulltab. So can yellow gold. Especially low carat gold. Gold jewelry can sound like anything non ferrous, since it is mixed with different metals, in varying amounts.

 

[TORRERO]

Steve, I meant the small things like hairpins. Still a pulse will find the small iron too.

I recently bought a Sand Shark and tested it on the beaches of SC. for 3 days over the holiday weekend.
It seemed to work good.....
after 2 days I figured the double beep trick out on small iron. It sounds more like 2 signals side by side, as if there are 2 targets in the hole, but in fact its a hairpin, or nail...
So you can walk over small iron with the Sand Shark.
but after 3 days and a sore arm I did not have much to show for it...
less than $1 over all, and a very few other pieces of trash.... beaches solidly sanded in...

 

[stevemc]

I remember the first time I heard a double beep it was a dime. I have heard it many times since and it is all kind of things, mainly close to the surface. You really cant disc with a PI, do dig it all. I have heard people say iron is scratchy, double beep, etc, but so can a lot of other things. By letting a double beep go, you could be letting a gold ring go. Really.

 

[Sandman]

I remember the first time I heard a double beep it was a dime. I have heard it many times since and it is all kind of things, mainly close to the surface. You really cant disc with a PI, do dig it all. I have heard people say iron is scratchy, double beep, etc, but so can a lot of other things. By letting a double beep go, you could be letting a gold ring go. Really.

So true Steve. I have dug double beeps thinking I might have two targets close together and come up with a coin or small ring many times but also lots of nails. Depends on your threshold for fun.

 

[TORRERO]

I remember the first time I heard a double beep it was a dime. I have heard it many times since and it is all kind of things, mainly close to the surface. You really cant disc with a PI, do dig it all. I have heard people say iron is scratchy, double beep, etc, but so can a lot of other things. By letting a double beep go, you could be letting a gold ring go. Really.

There was distinct difference between a "double beep" "blip-blip" sound and the sound I discovered
to be iron.
I dug all targets when I got to the beach and started using this machine, but years ago I learned and trained my hearing to "Guise" what a target is before digging, as in what are you hearing and what do you think it is, and then dig it to see if your guise is correct....
and after 3 days I noticed that over Iron targets only, many times you get a distinct double signal not a double beep. It sounds like two targets side by side, with space between.
and I dig it up and it would be a hairpin, or nail or some small piece of iron.
it did not double once out of the ground.
And bottle caps did not double, but were always loud and nasty sounding.
and coins or small non iron targets always gave a solid low to high to low sound.
where as a lot of the small iron gave a real squiggly kind of sound or maybe a flubbery kind of sound
Not saying I can get 10 out of 10, but after listening to this for 3 days and digging many signals
I bet I could 8 out of 10...

 

[Grafixwild]

Can't tell you about Minelab products yet since I don't own one but I am about to order an Sov. GT to add to the stable of detectors... Here is just a thought.... buying a Sand Shark and a Tiger Shark now gives you two water detectors that could share the accessories (both would fit the same hip mount bag, straight shaft IF you bought one etc.) IF one would break, you could still hunt the water with the other one and the guarantee is better with Tesoro.

I thought about that but the Tiger isn't really suited to salt water if the Sand Shark has problems. On the other hand if the Tiger goes down the Sand Shark being a pi doesn't disc. I know there's tons of junk on our local fresh water beaches and has to be in the water as well. I want to avoid as much of that as possible. Now that guarantee is another story which I've been thinking about.

The extra year warranty that mail order place offers is Minelab's warranty, not Kellyco's.

Good Luck,
Sandman

That info regarding Kellyco and the extended warranty is disturbing. To read it one would think it's from them, something extra they're willing give. I also have a problem with them responding to several emails regarding a competitive price on a 6'dd coil for my 705. Bad things.



I'm liking the hairpin discussion it is something I definitely want to avoid, digging them up that is. I guess no matter which machine(s) I get there's something to lose. Here's a question, since most of my water hunting will be in fresh water how well does the Tiger Shark disc?

I'm about 80 percent sold on the Excal but everythings still on the table.

 

[petersra]

First off, the Tiger Shark does not have a problem on salt beaches. The Tiger has a salt mode and a fresh mode selector switch. It does well in both modes. You need to adjust the sensitively differently on salt beaches with black sand than on fresh water beaches. (The sensitivity adjustment is inside the waterproof control box, it is adjusted with a jeweler's screw driver not a knob on the outside, pain..... but doable) With the sensitivity set the same on a salt beach as a fresh water beach, the Tiger will likely false a lot or else you don't have the sensitivity set to the optimal level in the fresh mode, but with a minor adjustment of the sensitivity on salt beaches it works fine and with a 10" coil you can expect about 10-11" of depth on a coin size target. It comes standard with an 8" coil. In my opinion, that is not big enough, so you will end up buying the 10" coil and then will be looking for something with an even bigger footprint. I have an 18" x 3" DD Tesoro "clean sweep coil" with an adaptor so it will work on the Tiger. Because it is a DD coil, it is more stable on salt beaches and you cover much more area when you hunt. However, the depth is only about 6" max, so there is a tradeoff. When I use that setup, I am looking for shallow recent drops, usually in the summer. Now to your discrimination question. The Tiger does discriminate, but it is not a pick and choose what you want to discriminate. You turn the dial from 0 - 10 and somewhere along that range you will discriminate out small iron, then nickels, then foil, then gold, etc., at the 10 setting you will still get silver and copper targets. I don't like the discrimination feature because when you discriminate, you loose depth and when you discriminate you risk loosing valueable targets. (I also have a cheap Radio Shack detector that tells you what the target is. In one instance, I found a white gold class ring that the detector said was iron. Not sure where the Tiger would have put the ring on its discrimination scale because I returned the ring before I got the Tiger, but I sure don't want to discriminate out white gold rings.) I hunt with it in all metal mode without discrimination, but bobby pin signals are distinctive and I rarely dig them unless I am bored and just want to confirm that, "yep that's a bobby pin signal". I like the Tiger and it works for me in the conditions I choose to use it. The warranty is exceptional. I used the warranty once due in part to operator error and it was there and back without a hitch. On the down side, the Tiger is not stable in the rolling surf. You hear every wave coming over the coil, so that is a pain, but the coil design glides through the water. Ok, there is good and bad and you will have to decide for yourself...... For me, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence and if I had it to do over again after everything I have read about the features of the Excalibur, I would have spent the extra $$ and gone that route and probably added a WOT coil or SEF coil to it. That's my 2 cents. Good luck with your decision. HH, Ralph