Lucky13
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- #21
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Exactly!goverton said:
Info on Treasure Maps
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
Who IS the "map-maker" for the BEALE PAPERS? 
Old Bookaroo
Silver Member
Rebel - KGC:
I believe it was Richard Walburn (I may not have spelt that gentleman's name correctly) who wrote an excellent booklet on the Beale Treasure - and blew it out of the water.
From Wickpedia - an easy source to locate: "The letters also contain several English words, such as 'stampede' and 'improvise', not otherwise recorded before the 1840s; implying composition after their purported date."
There remains the size issue of the "unsolved" papers. And the lack of historical documentation for the characters and events described in the booklet.
Personally, I think this was a money-making hoax by the author. It honestly makes no difference to me if people want to spend their time on it. Unless folks are digging on someone else's property, it appears to be a harmless passtime. And will leave the more lucrative fields open to others.
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
PS: Very interesting! http://www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Graphics/Bamboozlement1.pdf
If you haven't read Herbert O. Yardley's book The Education of a Poker Player, I recommend it!
I believe it was Richard Walburn (I may not have spelt that gentleman's name correctly) who wrote an excellent booklet on the Beale Treasure - and blew it out of the water.
From Wickpedia - an easy source to locate: "The letters also contain several English words, such as 'stampede' and 'improvise', not otherwise recorded before the 1840s; implying composition after their purported date."
There remains the size issue of the "unsolved" papers. And the lack of historical documentation for the characters and events described in the booklet.
Personally, I think this was a money-making hoax by the author. It honestly makes no difference to me if people want to spend their time on it. Unless folks are digging on someone else's property, it appears to be a harmless passtime. And will leave the more lucrative fields open to others.
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
PS: Very interesting! http://www.angelfire.com/pro/bealeciphers/Graphics/Bamboozlement1.pdf
If you haven't read Herbert O. Yardley's book The Education of a Poker Player, I recommend it!
K
Kentucky Kache
Guest
Old Bookaroo said:
You don't really believe those words were used in the 1840's do you? I mean, if they hadn't been used before then, it's not possible they could have been used then, right? Sounds silly, doesn't it? That's what you're saying about them being used in the Beale papers. Just because we've found the first "book" they were used in, that doesn't mean that's the first time they were used in common language. Truth is, we don't know exactly when those words were first coined. Too many years have past for us to be sure. That doesn't mean the Beale treasure is true, it only means we shouldn't swallow everything we read, whether it's for, or against.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
PPL, PPL! REMEMBER, the "Job Print" (aka BEALE PAPERS) was printed/published in 1885! By THEN, "questionable words" WERE used! LOL! 
K
Kentucky Kache
Guest
Rebel - KGC said:
Only thing missing is proof that the Beale papers are a later creation, as you say. Of course, you COULD BE right.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
KK, the BEALE PAPERS was printed/published in 1885! YOU must be thinking of the BEALE CIPHER(S)...
K
Kentucky Kache
Guest
Rebel - KGC said:
You know what I mean.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
NOPE! NOT a "mind-reader"; YOU clarify, please... TY! P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers "Click" on images to ENLARGE... OB, NEVER heard of that guy... WHAT book? SHARE, please... TY!
Old Bookaroo
Silver Member
Rebel KGC:
Some years ago Richard Walburn sent me a copy of the booklet (spiral bound) pamphlet he'd written on the Beale Codes. Sorry I can not locate it at the moment. I'm not trying to be mysterious here - it's in storage. Actually I know just where it is - I just don't know which of the hundreds of boxes it's in.
Anyway, the theory is simple. There are words in the Beale letters that were not being used at the time they were supposed to have been written. From memory, there are at least half a dozen. The Wikipedia article mentions two. How many does one need? Language changes over time, and many of these changes can be pinned down as to time.
Additionally, as pointed out in the readily available articles, Paper #3 doesn't begin to be long enough to contain the information it is purported to offer.
Add that to the lack of historical information on the main characters in the story, the very unlikely story of decoding Paper #2, the fact the "author" needed money - the whole thing just doesn't add up.
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
Some years ago Richard Walburn sent me a copy of the booklet (spiral bound) pamphlet he'd written on the Beale Codes. Sorry I can not locate it at the moment. I'm not trying to be mysterious here - it's in storage. Actually I know just where it is - I just don't know which of the hundreds of boxes it's in.
Anyway, the theory is simple. There are words in the Beale letters that were not being used at the time they were supposed to have been written. From memory, there are at least half a dozen. The Wikipedia article mentions two. How many does one need? Language changes over time, and many of these changes can be pinned down as to time.
Additionally, as pointed out in the readily available articles, Paper #3 doesn't begin to be long enough to contain the information it is purported to offer.
Add that to the lack of historical information on the main characters in the story, the very unlikely story of decoding Paper #2, the fact the "author" needed money - the whole thing just doesn't add up.
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
TY, OB... YOU are basing YOUR "final decision" (hoax) on ONE author? LOL! I need MORE info than THAT! I have read MANY books from MANY authors (w/o a "hidden agenda"); met MANY ppl from Lynchburg/Bedford County, VIRGINIA re. the BEALE Story; walked the "area of interest" in Lynchburg, AND! Bedford County, VIRGINIA; met with Peter Viemeister (author of THREE books on the Beale Treasure). Met with/e-mailed to/from MANY treasure hunters re. the Beale Treasure/CSA TREASURY/VA State TREASURY (Civil War era) to conclude SOMETHING is "out there". Hoax? NAW. "Cover-story"? MAYBE... 
8)
K
Kentucky Kache
Guest
Rebel - KGC said:
Okay, Reb, I was referring to the papers that Beale left for Morriss, in the event he (Beale) never returned. Not just the codes, but the letters, as well as everything Beale told Morriss. In the context of the conversation you should have known that, since that is where the words in question are located.
Words are used in the vernacular before they are used in print. So if you see "new" words in books, you can be pretty sure that someone, somewhere, has been using those words for a while. Just ask a publisher if he would publish a book that was full of words that none of his readers would understand.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
TY, KK! Like words in FRENCH (Will Smith, Fred Jones)? The "letters" from TJB to R. MORRISS are "troublesome", indeed! 
Crow
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Hello
I think it is hight of folly to assume anything by righting off all treasure maps one way or another. Some maps are fake some are the real. It really comes down to careful examination of the alleged map and contents of the documents.
There has been many Authenticated cases of maps leading to treasure. Below in another more recent example.
Ohio Chronicle Telegram: 2/8/1986 page 18
Map leads feds to buried gold
By CHANCE CONNER
Scripps Howard
A "treasure map" discovered in the home of an accused
cocaine dealer has led federal drug agents to a field in
Nebraska, where they dug up more than $1 million in gold
buried in Tupperware containers, according to federal authorities
in Denver.
The buried coins were found on property owned by one of
three men indicted by a federal grand jury in Denver last October
for allegedly running a cocaine-smuggling ring. Authorities say the
ring brought in 850 pounds of cocaine between 1976 and 1982.
CHARGED in the case were William Compton Musson of Denver;
William Francis Var Nuys, of Long Beach, Calif.; andGary Erwin Mintz,
the alleged owner of Shotgun Willie's, a topless nightclub in Denver.
Although the coins were found a year ago, the episode
was not previously revealed.The treasure map was found
during a search by federal Drug Enforcement Administration
agents of a house Musson owned in Kula, Hawaii. The map was
found inside a diary kept by Musson.
According to DEA records,the map, apparently drawn by
Musson, depicted a large white cliff that was cracked down the
middle and flanked by trees. Written on the map was a
message: "From trees near center, 20 paces apart."
"It was so vague, so cryptic,"said one agent. "It was a long
shot."
The agents knew that Musson owned property in Hawaii, Colorado,
New Mexico and Nebraska.They decided to start theirsearch for
the treasure on the640 acres of land Musson ownedin Sioux County,
Neb., near the Wyoming border.
A team flew to Musson's property in Sioux County."I TOLD THEM there was no
way I was going to a field in Nebraska in the middle of winter to look for pieces of
eight," said another agent.
But on Feb. 5, 1985, DEA agents found the white cliff and the two trees after several hours
of searching Musson's property. Moments later, their metal detector went crazy.
The agents began to dig and soon uncovered about a dozen Tupperware containers
bearing 441 gold pieces.The gold was taken to coin
experts, who appraised the treasure at about $1 million. Musson, Mintz and Van Nuys
all are charged with the federal government's "kingpin" statute, which could put them in prison
for life if they're convicted.
The government alleged the men earned $4 million from cocaine
sales.The government wants to seize Musson's property, as well
as the gold, other coins and jewelry, and the contents of his
bank and brokerage accounts.
In addition to Shotgun Willie's, the government claims
Mintz's assets include interest in promissory notes totaling more
than $900,000; three airplanes,buildings and land at 10 sites in
Denver; a promissory note for sale of property on Riverside
Drive in New York City; a building and land at a condominium
in Jackson Hole, Wyoming; and brokerage and bank accounts.
Van Nuys assets include interest in property in California,
Oregon and Hawaii, gold coins, stocks and four airplanes.
All of the assets were gained through a large cocaine smuggling
ring the men operated, the government charged. The government
estimated the value of the assets at more than $7million.
Crow
I think it is hight of folly to assume anything by righting off all treasure maps one way or another. Some maps are fake some are the real. It really comes down to careful examination of the alleged map and contents of the documents.
There has been many Authenticated cases of maps leading to treasure. Below in another more recent example.
Ohio Chronicle Telegram: 2/8/1986 page 18
Map leads feds to buried gold
By CHANCE CONNER
Scripps Howard
A "treasure map" discovered in the home of an accused
cocaine dealer has led federal drug agents to a field in
Nebraska, where they dug up more than $1 million in gold
buried in Tupperware containers, according to federal authorities
in Denver.
The buried coins were found on property owned by one of
three men indicted by a federal grand jury in Denver last October
for allegedly running a cocaine-smuggling ring. Authorities say the
ring brought in 850 pounds of cocaine between 1976 and 1982.
CHARGED in the case were William Compton Musson of Denver;
William Francis Var Nuys, of Long Beach, Calif.; andGary Erwin Mintz,
the alleged owner of Shotgun Willie's, a topless nightclub in Denver.
Although the coins were found a year ago, the episode
was not previously revealed.The treasure map was found
during a search by federal Drug Enforcement Administration
agents of a house Musson owned in Kula, Hawaii. The map was
found inside a diary kept by Musson.
According to DEA records,the map, apparently drawn by
Musson, depicted a large white cliff that was cracked down the
middle and flanked by trees. Written on the map was a
message: "From trees near center, 20 paces apart."
"It was so vague, so cryptic,"said one agent. "It was a long
shot."
The agents knew that Musson owned property in Hawaii, Colorado,
New Mexico and Nebraska.They decided to start theirsearch for
the treasure on the640 acres of land Musson ownedin Sioux County,
Neb., near the Wyoming border.
A team flew to Musson's property in Sioux County."I TOLD THEM there was no
way I was going to a field in Nebraska in the middle of winter to look for pieces of
eight," said another agent.
But on Feb. 5, 1985, DEA agents found the white cliff and the two trees after several hours
of searching Musson's property. Moments later, their metal detector went crazy.
The agents began to dig and soon uncovered about a dozen Tupperware containers
bearing 441 gold pieces.The gold was taken to coin
experts, who appraised the treasure at about $1 million. Musson, Mintz and Van Nuys
all are charged with the federal government's "kingpin" statute, which could put them in prison
for life if they're convicted.
The government alleged the men earned $4 million from cocaine
sales.The government wants to seize Musson's property, as well
as the gold, other coins and jewelry, and the contents of his
bank and brokerage accounts.
In addition to Shotgun Willie's, the government claims
Mintz's assets include interest in promissory notes totaling more
than $900,000; three airplanes,buildings and land at 10 sites in
Denver; a promissory note for sale of property on Riverside
Drive in New York City; a building and land at a condominium
in Jackson Hole, Wyoming; and brokerage and bank accounts.
Van Nuys assets include interest in property in California,
Oregon and Hawaii, gold coins, stocks and four airplanes.
All of the assets were gained through a large cocaine smuggling
ring the men operated, the government charged. The government
estimated the value of the assets at more than $7million.
Crow
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