IS IT FAIR TO DIG RELICS

[gnewt]

I would say yes, if it is not on sacred ground. Sacred ground is not always marked and some burials were done by white man or enemy and the people were put in a hole or burned. Most laws are against digging. I disagree with the law but we must obey them. Personally I have a fear of digging. I have a friend that dug years ago and has a beautiful collection of Creek and Hillabee tracks. Over the years my tracks are hidden, on rocks and beechnut trees. They are now 70 years old. I admire peoples collections.
I hope the law is changed and people can research, find history and identify burials, even put some kind of a mark down. I think most people on this net would jump at the chance. I'll bet that would get some group action going. I talked with the chief of the Cherokee in NC and I am sure he would love to see this. Anyone want to go to Washington get this started.

 

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[gnewt]

Prospector, I thought of this too, I like looking at that evidence, but like you brought up, that seems like a risk. It would only take one disaster and you and I wont get to see anymore of those great pictures, all I can say is be carefull. Gnewt

 

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[gnewt]

This has been one of the best covered subjects I have read. All opinions are honest and show what we all think.

One point I would like to make, not all people have the same idea of what is sacred ground, White people, Black people or Indians.

Indians had different nations, seven had rites much like the white, blacks become much like the white with their rites. Most in the West were different, I think because of the soil and rock.

The East and far west Indians did not think of death or life in the same way as others. In N.Central Texas, the Tonkawa in early years were canables.

My ancestors were given land in S central and West Oklahoma, GGGpa could not live there because of what he called were savage neighbors, so they moved with the Chocktaw in SE Oklahoma. Many of my people and Cherokees declined to go on the trail of tears, by being American instead of Indians. Some areas went along with this because they were neighbors and cared for each other. Others were forced to go because they did not become neighbors, they kept in villages to them selves.

What we have today is a slow integration of all people, we have good and bad, and history tells we always have had and always will, since Adam, Eve , Cain and Able.

What we have is what we call cemetaries, sacred ground, and all on this forum
seem to care and want to protect those out of respect for our ancestors and yours, even those that don't believe as we do.

I started a post that I worded wrong but I was trying to make a point.
Sadly it ended in a battle of words, nothing I could say could keep people from thinking I was destroying history, you and I are history, we put our tracks down as those before us. That post was removed because, some had the feeling if you left a track on this earth you were planting a lie about history .

The words that have been put on this post are educational, because much thought was given by these people. I want to thank you, I thought 99% had some great information. 1% me, oh well I'm just old.LOL(almost loud) Gnewt

 

[newnan man]

What are you digging. Bones? Graves for grave goods? Then it is unethical. If your looking for arrowheads or pottery remember most of the stuff to be found are ancient discards. I mean an old worn out point or broken pottery was trash to the Native American and was most likely tossed.
Seriously, look at your collection. Chances are good it is mostly chipped worn out flint with the occasional nicer one still showing wear. Some good ones for sure were lost or ended up where a person can dig and find it. Big deal. Digging is no different than surface collecting. How is a point laying on top of the ground any different than one buried? If permission is granted and no laws broken it is then an individual choice to make. Just my lowly opinion.

 

[gnewt]

I don't have any artifacts, and do not dig for them. What people find I love to see, and I have no objection to their hunts unless they don't let me see. LOL I have a shaman in the family and there are things that I cannot touch. Now my friends the Cherokees will sell you all kinds of stuff from the sacred grounds made in Taiwan, I am kidding, Chief up in NC will be looking for my hair, he is one fine man.Gnewt

 

[Billco]

I like the fact that government land is protected. Its a good think that people aren't allowed to dig up trees, load their car up with rocks, and dig for relics in Yellowstone. Places like that are for everybody to enjoy. But common sense says that almost all private property is going to be utilized to its highest and best use. People like Ted Turner can afford to buy 10's of thousands of acres of property and protect it from development. That is the exception. Most people can't afford to do that. Private property is generally utiliized to its highest and best use - meaning money talks. About five miles from my home are the remains of Indian mounds. Archaeologists say that they are among the most important prehistoric Indian sites in Alabama. Within the last few years, an outlet mall, an amusement park and a county sewer and garbage disposal plant has been built on the remains of the mounds and village. If the government didn't see fit to protect one of the most important archaeological sites in the state and actually built a garbage disposal site over it, what does that say about the run of the mill sites where relic hunters find most of their stuff? Finding relics to me is saving history. I save it all, and appreciate it all just the same - be it a broken arrowhead or a tiny pottery sherd.

People who think all this stuff should be left in the ground because the Indians would want it that way, are about like global warming fanatics who think that the argument is over because they say it is. Nobody knows what ancient Indians would have thought about any of this. My guess is that they would be amused.

 

[Atlantis0077]

LOL,

You got right!! Many is the time when I am digging in a whole...temps 90's...humidity 100%..sweat running down everything....mosquitoes, ticks, and assorted vermin rampant....and of course finding a few bits of junk...that I would swear I can hear laughter...subtle at first but gets louder as the day wears on.

Oh yea they would think we were crazy, and sometimes I would have to agree.

Atlantis

 

[bean man]

I believe that now, their spirits might like it, because after all, when we look at an artifact, it keeps their spirit alive and reminds us of a time and people who cherished the earth and tired to always do right by her. A lesson we so badly need to learn.

 

[gnewt]

Bean, They cherished the earth, I still do and you do, just about everybody does but don't give anyone credit for taking care of it . I went to Cherokee Village on Snow Bird Mtn NC, it was mess, not occupied by the Earth tenders. I went down the mountain a few miles to Robinsville a White settlement and guess what, the same crap.
So I look at it different from most people, we are all tearing it up. We get some beautiful land and watch it long enough and its gone. That is the way of all men, and pigs, root it up. People like us, we dream and come up with a nightmare.

Ya'll clean up that mess my ancestors left that you call relics LOL and HH. Gnewt
PS I wanna see em.

 

[steve71]

I would say yes, if it is not on sacred ground. Sacred ground is not always marked and some burials were done by white man or enemy and the people were put in a hole or burned. Most laws are against digging. I disagree with the law but we must obey them. Personally I have a fear of digging. I have a friend that dug years ago and has a beautiful collection of Creek and Hillabee tracks. Over the years my tracks are hidden, on rocks and beechnut trees. They are now 70 years old. I admire peoples collections.
I hope the law is changed and people can research, find history and identify burials, even put some kind of a mark down. I think most people on this net would jump at the chance. I'll bet that would get some group action going. I talked with the chief of the Cherokee in NC and I am sure he would love to see this. Anyone want to go to Washington get this started.

i dig as long as its not burials.i just got back from a friends house he dont look at all anymore for artifacts.his place is sacred and started to dig on it then he had two heart attacks seeing shadows in the house and a big tree fell threw his front door.he said that was enough so he had some full blooded indians come and bless the place and he burried the artifacts back.no more artifact hunting for him

 

[steve71]

I keep saying to myself I am done here and I am(after I am done defending myself)but I personally think it is wrong to dig,if it is meant to be found then it will be readily made available on the surface.However I am not going to tell anybody what they can and cant do,according to me! I must ask though,these fellows that seem so worried about archaeologists learning from there finds,dont you think when you remove an artifact all that can be learned from their precise location and depth,etc. is lost??Archeologists dig uniform trenches and thoroughly record all this information.

do you metal detect?if it was ment to be found it would be on the surface.i dont worry about archaeologists myself.

 

[steve71]

I never dig. All my finds are on top of the ground. To me they are "gifts" from Mother Nature. If I dug them I would feel like I would be stealing.

who would you be stealing them from?mother nature

 

[ohioriver hunter]

I dug one time, only down about a foot, in my friends farm field where theres a camp. I decided after that, not to do it anymore. Afraid of bad mojo.

Hi Beano,
Too late you

r already cursed
Jeff

 

[bean man]

You may be right. I'm thinking you might be in the same boat. Good thing your buddy was generous.

 

[kuger]

I never dig. All my finds are on top of the ground. To me they are "gifts" from Mother Nature. If I dug them I would feel like I would be stealing.

who would you be stealing them from?mother nature

Its something called respect,werent you on some rant about respect?Hey how about I dig up some of your relatives!!!!!

 

[Michigan Badger]

There is nothing wrong with gathering ancient north American relics when one sees them.

If they aren't taken and preserved they'll be gone forever. Land development and our so-called "progress" is destroying more of these wonderful time capsules than anything else.

This 4,000 to 11,000 year old "Copper Culture" awl I'm holding was found in a flooded area in Wisconsin. Most people would think it a big nasty nail and thrown it into the trash can.

When legal, dig it.

Badger

 

[grrbrts]

I am biased against it, less it's done professionally. But, it the conditions put them out of context, such as; plowed fields, lake beds, etc., then I would have to say, "yes". The creeks, however, I am for it. In that they are out of context and might one day end up in deeper waters (e.g. Mississippi River).

 

[gnewt]

Extreme Hiker, you got a good outlook on collecting tracks, the spirits smile on you.Gnewt

 

[undertaker]

I let the tractors do my digging. Last year I saw a dozen or more archaeologist dig a site for about two months. My son, brother and I walked a couple of plowed fields on the opposite side of the road and we found more artifacts in two days than they did in two months. I've have no problem with digging as long as its not burial grounds but digging just isn't are thing although it always depends on the situation. If we see them arrowheads sticking out of the side of a creek bank Im sure we would at least scratch the surface to see if there were more. You don't see much digging by artifact hunters around here. If you do see a digger 99% chance its a archaeologist or someone looking for worms for bait.

 

[gnewt]

I like that worms for bait deal.
Archaeologists are looking for history, mostly ancient history.
The diggers are finding everything from this time to way back when. Some are guessing as to what time it was put there and mixing it up, I don't say that is bad and they are having a good time. They love the stuff they look at and that is good. The Spirits may not take it kindly if it is taken from the wrong place. I say if you find those tracks be careful, study the history and land and have fun and respect. Give to the children some of what you find that will please the spirits. Look at it like the great grand children are pride of the great grand ancestors just like they are our pride. That is a parable that probably doesn't make any sense, I say what I feel.
I am not a Shaman, My Daughter is and I am just Rain Crow, heard and not seen.

 

[steve71]

I never dig. All my finds are on top of the ground. To me they are "gifts" from Mother Nature. If I dug them I would feel like I would be stealing.

who would you be stealing them from?mother nature

Its something called respect,werent you on some rant about respect?Hey how about I dig up some of your relatives!!!!!

well i dont dig up bodies but if you want to dig up some of my relatives shut up and keep digging it might get alittle smelly