Is it modern or is it old? ( a teaching thread)

[monsterrack]

I know that a lot of folks don't know what to look for when it comes to hand craved or modern craved items, I hope this helps. When Native Americans craved bone , stone, wood or pottery they had to use the tools they had and good old elbow action. When a person holds a tool in their hand and make a back and forth motion they never can make a slot or line that is the same all the way thru, but a rotory tool will make a cut the same size, except when you go to lift the tool out of the object, then the depth changes but the bit makes a point at the end of the cut. Hand ground artifacts never and I say never have a completely flat area on them. It may look flat to your eye but if you look real close there will be a slight concave to the surface, due to the action of the human hand and arm. When modern man uses a power tool the lines may not be straight but most of the time the marks look the same. All modern tool's will leave a mark that is all one size and side by side and going in the same direction. Some well made fakes you will have to use a 100 power eye loop or scope to see them, but trust me they cannot hide from that 100 power. Below are some bone points I make for bow hunters, both where made on a belt sander, but the one on the left I used a flint chip on the groove , the one on the right was with a rotory tool, just notice the way the grooves differ. Also look at the tool marks on both points made by the belt sander they all go the same way and are the same size. I hope this helps View attachment 859791

 

[painterx7]

Great information !!!

 

[katdancing]

What a great piece of information. Thank you for sharing.. I like the one on the left best.
Very nice work. Kat

 

[dbag1969]

Nice work....Interesting post. After looking at dozens of posted 'finds' on this site dating back several years I noticed a lot of points that display hinge fractures and lack any noticeable patina or wear that I could only assume are modern repros that are being touted as 'recent finds' etc. I am curious what kind of bone you use and how do you prep it to make your points? Thanks for sharing.

 

[Tnmountains]

Nice work....Interesting post. After looking at dozens of posted 'finds' on this site dating back several years I noticed a lot of points that display hinge fractures and lack any noticeable patina or wear that I could only assume are modern repros that are being touted as 'recent finds' etc. I am curious what kind of bone you use and how do you prep it to make your points? Thanks for sharing.

Ahh many materials will have multiple hinge fractures and steps and zero patina. Especially materials like horn stone found in water.That does not make them repros. The only way you can really see the surface is with a microscope. I have 3 of them I was gifted just for this. I have a greenstone (real) celt and under magnification you can see cut lines in a grid like pattern where they incised it to a certain depth to be polished off. Amazing..Naked eye I never would have seen it. Now take the hundreds of points Treefrog digs and they are so calcified you cant recognize them until he gives them an acid bath then they look great and still hold some patina. Minerals in soil bind to an artifact and in the water it gets stained. This what I was taught but I could be wrong.
I suggest an inexpensive one of these if you really want to see your artifacts and patina. Good teaching thread MonsterRack. Hopefully people recognize drimmel and modern power tool marks Especially if they are new and buy things.

 

[monsterrack]

Nice work....Interesting post. After looking at dozens of posted 'finds' on this site dating back several years I noticed a lot of points that display hinge fractures and lack any noticeable patina or wear that I could only assume are modern repros that are being touted as 'recent finds' etc. I am curious what kind of bone you use and how do you prep it to make your points? Thanks for sharing.

I use just regular cow leg bones cut in slabs on table saw, taken to belt sander to shape it and then a little stain then it's ready to use.

 

[monsterrack]

Nice work....Interesting post. After looking at dozens of posted 'finds' on this site dating back several years I noticed a lot of points that display hinge fractures and lack any noticeable patina or wear that I could only assume are modern repros that are being touted as 'recent finds' etc. I am curious what kind of bone you use and how do you prep it to make your points? Thanks for sharing.

Because a stone item has a hinge fracture is not a sign that it is not real. I have found 100s of points, scrapers and so on that had step fractures. They are caused by a lot of things like the type of stone, the angle of the strike. Your patina is caused by soil, water and air, In my area a point found in a field has no patina, one found in a creek may or may not have patina, it depends on how long it's been in the creek and the type of creek. The points I find in creeks with patina are most of the time in a slow flowing, very shallow water that stops running at lot of times and puts a deposit of patina on artifacts.

 

[unclemac]

what I want to see is the artifacts under the 100 power...can you put your camera up to the eyepiece the way I can to my telescope and show us what you are seeing?

 

[monsterrack]

what I want to see is the artifacts under the 100 power...can you put your camera up to the eyepiece the way I can to my telescope and show us what you are seeing?

Maybe Tnmountains can do it with his stuff but my camera is not that good, if he can't I will find some photos of modern tool marks and hand tool marks to put on here.

 

[Tnmountains]

what I want to see is the artifacts under the 100 power...can you put your camera up to the eyepiece the way I can to my telescope and show us what you are seeing?

I have tried to shoot thru my microscopes with no success. I might have a camera lens that might do it. I shall look.

 

[unclemac]

sweet

 

[monsterrack]

I have tried to shoot thru my microscopes with no success. I might have a camera lens that might do it. I shall look.

If it wont work I will contact my buddy he has a camera that is tied into his microscope.

 

[Tnmountains]

I have not had time to try. Might be able to get it if I set up a light tent. But it is not equal to a microscope. Sorry.

 

[timekiller]

I have tried to shoot thru my microscopes with no success. I might have a camera lens that might do it. I shall look.

Yep pretty tuff to do.

 

[Tnmountains]

Yep that's it Pete tough to focus.

 

[dbag1969]

Modern microscopes can't digitize images and store them on a card?

 

[timekiller]

Modern microscopes can't digitize images and store them on a card?

I'm sure there's some out there that can but mine won't.
Take Care,
Pete,