Is this Confederate or Union Navy?

[zaxfire69]

I'm posting this for my hunting partner Confederate 1. He found this one today at one of our spots we like to frequent. There has been some 3 ringers pulled from the area and I dug a navy button myself. He dug this one about 3 or 4 inches down. He got it home and cleaned it with a dry toothbrush. We want to know from you pro's out there is this a rare Confederate Navy button..
http://www.yankeerebelantiques.com/servlet/the-106/Civilwar-Navy-Button-Confederate/Detail

The reverse is rusted and can't get a backmark off of it, but It looks just like the above button. We will be happy either way. Just want you button boys out there to let us know. Thanks from Confederate 1 and zaxfire69 in advance..

 

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[umrgolf]

Union Navy still a keeper

 

[zaxfire69]

UMRGOLF2000

This is the Confederate button
http://www.yankeerebelantiques.com/servlet/the-106/Civilwar-Navy-Button-Confederate/Detail

This is the Union Button
http://www.civilwarbuttons.com/uc0807059.JPG

Look at how the Anchor is behind the wing in the Union button and how The Anchor is in front of the wing in the Confederate Button Picture.

You sure it is a Union?

 

[umrgolf]

I am no button "expert", but I have dug a few buttons with this design and they've all been federal issue buttons as far as I knew. The link you posted of a rare confederate navy button would be the first confederate navy button I've seen in any type of condition for less than $500-600.. I'm assuming they're saying it's confederate because of the london backmark Anyway, if you look on several sites under confederate Navy, nowhere do you see that button so that seems very odd to me. Again, I'm no expert and very well could be wrong so somebody with a button book will have to confirm whether or not that's the case.

 

[zaxfire69]

Thank UMR...Man there are so many pictures of buttons out there. You know your buttons. We thank you.

 

[umrgolf]

Thank UMR...Man there are so many pictures of buttons out there. You know your buttons. We thank you.

This is the button in your link

"Civil War coat-size Navy button. It is often referred to as a NA 112, Navy 2-piece with border and circle of rope. The eagle is resting on a horizontal anchor, three cannon balls below, with 13 stars encircling, on a lined field. The eagle is facing left and the upper fluke of the anchor is behind the left wing….signifying Civil War era. The face of the button is simply beautiful….about 98% of the original gold gilt still remains, only having a few dark spots on the high points. The outer rim has some wear from use. On the back of the button is “J & Co LONDON” and is complete with the stand up shank. There is a little mystery involved with this rare backmark. Some think that this button could have been made in America, rather than in England. Steele & Johnson (Waterbury, CT), sometimes incorporated the word “LONDON” into their backmarks to imply British quality rather than actual geographic location. But stated in McGuinn & Bazelon, it is thought that the button is indeed British, and the “J” in the backmark stands for “Jennens”. This would open it up for the possibility of being purchased by the Confederacy. The verbal history of this button is that it came off of a Confederate officer’s coat in the Hampton, Virginia area. The coat was found with several buttons remaining…..this being one of those buttons. However, I cannot substantiate this, but pass it along as a point of interest. This is truly a great piece and the backmark is extremely rare, so take advantage to add a rare button to your Civil War collection. (ON HOLD) "


More or less saying that the confederate label is an opinion rather than fact> therefore the price that we see here for an "extremely rare" backmark.. had this been a no doubt confederate button it would be in the thousands

 

[{Sentinel}]

It is indeed a Civil War style UNION Navy button...and its style is STILL in use today as well..

There's nothing Confederate about that button If you read CLOSELY they are "Claiming" that it is quote on quote "Confederate" ONLY because it was rumored to have been worn by a Confederate Officer and subsequently fell off his jacket....MANY upon MANY Confederate Officers and Soldiers used Federal aka Yankee issue buttons on their own Confederate Uniforms...However,
there is nothing Confederate about the design as stated above, whether it was produced by Steele and Johnson or in London (my money is in London) is no matter it is without a doubt a Union Navy Button...
We'd need to know what the backmark is on yours to determine if its Civil War era or not Still a nice save, Congrats

P.S.
It could HAVE been worn by a Confederate Officer...but to ask that much for this regular U.S. Navy button without knowing the EXACT PROVENANCE would be Folly indeed. You would need to have some hard evidence linking it with the said "Confederate Officer" before demanding such a price as the one the man is asking on the relic site

 

[CRUSADER]

The one in the link is a brass back, you say that this one is rusted on the reverse (can we see it?). Which to me would indicate a post-CW date, unless you know of any steel back types from this period.

 

[mainer]

Nice looking button, no matter what.

 

[romeo-1]

An iron back usually indicates a modern blazer button.

 

[Dano Sverige]

From your links:
The beak of eagle on the "union" button is above the star to it's left.
On the "confederate" button the beak is adjacent to the star.
Not a lot of help but may help when trying to match the maker to your button.

 

[CRUSADER]

An iron back usually indicates a modern blazer button.

I think at the least post 1900.

 

[zaxfire69]

Thanks everyone. I will take another pic of the back of the button when I get home from work Sunday. I found a Navy button from the same field. I also have dug some 3 ringers from the same area he found this button. This area has Civil war and WW1 era relics.

 

[vayank54]

If it has an iron back I would say it's post 1900. Also on most civil war period navies the eagles chest isnt raised as high as the one on your button

 

[Woodland Detectors]

The one in the link is a brass back, you say that this one is rusted on the reverse (can we see it?). Which to me would indicate a post-CW date, unless you know of any steel back types from this period.

Exactly! We need to see the back please

 

[Woodland Detectors]

The one in the link is a brass back, you say that this one is rusted on the reverse (can we see it?). Which to me would indicate a post-CW date, unless you know of any steel back types from this period.

Exactly! We need to see the back please
I'm no expert but, I have found my share of "modern, Civilian coat buttons"
And I have to say it's leaning that way.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Wow this is so cool. Its the old hippie uniform button lol.
SouthJerseyJim actually unburied a complete coat uniform with these interesting unknown mystery buttons.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,209855.msg1503778.html#msg1503778


I dont know how I missed this one but it stumped us for the longest time.
Sorry its not the so-called rare Confederate button and not the Union Navy either.
We can call it the hippie uniform button lol.
It resembles the CW eagle BUT the anchor flute in front of the wing makes it post CW.
(Note my Union Navy buttons bottom)
The rusted out iron back most likely rules out any official Navy worth its salt.
My best guess is a very interesting old civilian.
Possibly a TOC reunion replacement button for old veterans.
Its still not found in any military button book.
I think this is quite interesting and still leaves some unanswered questions.

 

[zaxfire69]

I will sure tell him about the Hippie button. I bet he gets a kick out of that.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I will sure tell him about the Hippie button. I bet he gets a kick out of that.

Its still open for debate but since its not found in any military book, has rusted back, anchor flute etc. our conclusion was a hippie jacket lol. Read this quote from notgittinenny:

Looks like one of the coats that were popular in the 1970's worn by hippies and other people who thought they were cool. I went with my brother in the early '70's to the local Army-Surplus stores to buy one of these Pea-Coats, they were made of wool and had the original buttons on them.......NGE http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,209855.msg1506026.html#msg1506026

 

[americancivilwarrelics]

Romeo-1 is correct. It is a postwar blazer button. Still a neat find but the iron back post dates it.