James Beverly Risque...

[Rebel - KGC]

Had the duel in Fincastle, Va. with Thomas Beale, Sr. (1806/07), over Judy Hancock, who later married Clark of the Lewis & Clark Expedition; at request of Prez Thomas Jefferson in 1803 or so... communicating by using CIPHERS. JB Risque (Attorney) & children later moved to growing town of Lynchburg, Va. "area"; creating a HUGE "Plantation" growing into Campbell County, near New London, Va. (now in Bedford County and VERY near Poplar Forest...) Thomas Jefferson's RETREAT. Over the years... he had many grandchildren; James Beverly Ward, and ALL the Hutter Bros (Confederate War). As I find MORE info, I will share such; ANOTHER good "source" of info on JB Risque is an "on-line" article by Richard Greaves... ONE LETTER, ONE ENCLOSURE - SUBJECT: BEALE TREASURE. "Google" it...

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

I went to Fincastle last year to find out about JB Risque and his duel. I found where he had the duel and said he could pull a silk handkerchief through the hole but no name was given as to whom his foe was?

Peter Viemeister (RIP & having a WONDERFUL laugh) said it was Thomas Beale, Sr., and ALSO correct about the hankie pulled through the bullet hole... MAN OF CONNECTIONS - Chapter 14; pages 119-127. THE BEALE TREASURE; NEW HISTORY of a MYSTERY; GET IT!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Go to NEEDING MY FIX "thread", page 2 on THIS Forum for MORE on JB Risque...

 

[Justintime]

"some few refused to join us ,being ,doubtless,deterred by the dangers, but such men we did not want, and were glad of there refusal". They were glad of their refusal, came back to bite. The refusies, were the only one who knew and didn't sign to the conditions,and was admitted as part of the party. The Risque and Beale duel,,,Beale shot Risque, then years later, the grandchildren of hankyhole, wrote the Beale Treasure pamphlet, as an attempt to bring the key to light. Risque knew about the secret treasure. Ward and Risque not having signed to the obligation to obey terms , they could say and do what they want. Did Morriss go to Ward, or did Ward go to Morriss. How was Morriss's friend selection was made, Ward worked for that,now being part of a new secret group,formed around a secret. All the the Beale party remained silent, not telling there grandchildren. Did Beale know John Hancock. I read that Beale was a merchant of sort,would a merchant back then buy smuggled goods, would there be smuggled inventory records. Justaskn... Maybe Beale's duel,is the reason we look for the treasure today, thanks Ward-Risque's grandson...
Ward had all the info,straight out the box, he knew it was impossible without the Key, having the key whole time..Thanks Justintime

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, here are FACTS... J. B. Risque was the GRANDFATHER of J. B. Ward, AND! The HUTTER brothers! Ward & the HUTTER brothers were COUSINS and played together on Grandpa Risque Plantation/Farm, near New London, Va. (Campbell County... south of Lynchburg, Va.). The Risque Family Cemetery has J. B. Ward's gravesite...

 

[bigscoop]

Existing documents show that one of Risque's general areas of legal business was in mining, not that this has anything to do with the tale but an interesting sidebar none the less. It has long been said the the duel was over the honor the girl, but there is reason to believe the duel may have come to issue over the family name/accusations. What isn't fully understood is who made the reputed insult/accusations...Risque or Beale? Beale soon departs and goes to New Orleans for reasons other then fear of prosecution as dueling was perfectly legal during the period.....so why did he really go there? Evidence suggest that nearly everyone directly involved in the true affair was under an oath of some still unknown/uncertain nature, the roots of this oath being traced back as far 1815/16. Most likely, either Beale or Risque was under the Vail of this same oath, though all the evidence suggest that it was likely Beale rather then Risque. We do know that soon after taking this oath it appears that fortunes would suddenly start to change with each new oath taker mysteriously becoming prominent businessmen within their communities shortly after taking the oath, however, nearly all of them maintained unusually high levels of financial debt., which is a bit strange unless this was in some way by design, which it might very well have been.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Existing documents show that one of Risque's general areas of legal business was in mining, not that this has anything to do with the tale but an interesting sidebar none the less. It has long been said the the duel was over the honor the girl, but there is reason to believe the duel may have come to issue over the family name/accusations. What isn't fully understood is who made the reputed insult/accusations...Risque or Beale? Beale soon departs and goes to New Orleans for reasons other then fear of prosecution as dueling was perfectly legal during the period.....so why did he really go there? Evidence suggest that nearly everyone directly involved in the true affair was under an oath of some still unknown/uncertain nature, the roots of this oath being traced back as far 1815/16. Most likely, either Beale or Risque was under the Vail of this same oath, though all the evidence suggest that it was likely Beale rather then Risque. We do know that soon after taking this oath it appears that fortunes would suddenly start to change with each new oath taker mysteriously becoming prominent businessmen within their communities shortly after taking the oath, however, nearly all of them maintained unusually high levels of financial debt., which is a bit strange unless this was in some way by design, which it might very well have been.

See OP; "Post" # 1... for the RECORDS! Show documents that Risque had "mining interests"; after moving to Lynchburg, Va., he was buying up LAND. Today, he would be known as being in Real Estate Law... NOW! As to the DUEL... it was over Judy HANCOCK; she MAY have been kin of JOHN HANCOCK (DOI)... DUNNO! AND! Robert MORRISS could have been descended from Robert MORRIS, who financed the American Revolution; I know of Robert Morris I & II. Robert Morris, Mayor of Lynchburg, Va. in 1813 or so, COULD have been Robert Morris III; Robert MORRISS (BP) could have been RM III's son or grandson... being TIRED of being potential RM IV, just changed HIS last name to MORRISS! HA! I would...

 

[bigscoop]

Exsisting legal records/court docs establish Risque's legal handling of certain mining interest. Ooops, me bad, I was thinking of Hancock and Kenerly at the same time and wrote Kenerly instead of Hancock. Anyway, I don't believe that duel was over young Judy, I think that reasoning was just a matter of convenience.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Exsisting legal records/court docs establish Risque's legal handling of certain mining interest. Ooops, me bad, I was thinking of Hancock and Kenerly at the same time and wrote Kenerly instead of Hancock. Anyway, I don't believe that duel was over young Judy, I think that reasoning was just a matter of convenience.

WHAT "Existing legal records/court docs"...? WHERE...?

 

[ECS]

I don't believe that duel was over young Judy, I think that reasoning was just a matter of convenience.

If the duel with Beale wasn't because of Risque's risky risque behaviour,then what was the cause?

 

[bigscoop]

If the duel with Beale wasn't because of Risque's risky risque behaviour,then what was the cause?

"Exact cause".....that's anyone's guess. However, I suspect there was already some bad blood there, difference of opinions, maybe some loyalty issues, probably the embers of an already smoldering fire. Sure, it's speculation, but it's somewhat educated speculation. Thomas Beale Sr. goes to New Orleans shortly afterwords and rather quickly he establishes a common business enterprise and comes into contact with people of certain interest. These same people can then be traced back to Bedford County & Richmond, both before and after the duel in question.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have looked at the Court Records in Fincastle in regards to the gun duel by James Beverly Risque. The court documents never say that JBR was shot by Thomas Beale-------they only say he was shot in a duel. Maude Clements around 1855 told the duel between JBR and Thomas Beale in her writings. That is where the silk handkerchief is first mentioned and she mentioned Julia (Judy) Hancock as the reason for the duel. This is factual information as Maude Clements was a well known historian for Lynchburg. She knew these people and their stories. I believe I will be like Rebel and stick to the facts by factual people.

AMEN!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Exact cause".....that's anyone's guess. However, I suspect there was already some bad blood there, difference of opinions, maybe some loyalty issues, probably the embers of an already smoldering fire. Sure, it's speculation, but it's somewhat educated speculation. Thomas Beale Sr. goes to New Orleans shortly afterwords and rather quickly he establishes a common business enterprise and comes into contact with people of certain interest. These same people can then be traced back to Bedford County & Richmond, both before and after the duel in question.

WHO are "these same people"...? "The DUEL" was in 1806/1807...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Exact cause".....that's anyone's guess. However, I suspect there was already some bad blood there, difference of opinions, maybe some loyalty issues, probably the embers of an already smoldering fire. Sure, it's speculation, but it's somewhat educated speculation. Thomas Beale Sr. goes to New Orleans shortly afterwords and rather quickly he establishes a common business enterprise and comes into contact with people of certain interest. These same people can then be traced back to Bedford County & Richmond, both before and after the duel in question.

Julia's father was a FRIEND of J. B. Risque; Thomas Beale, Jr. MAY have been interested in Judy, and Poppa Hancock probably had JBR sue (or attempted to sue) T. Beale, Sr. because T. Beale "disrespected" Julia's "honor". Being defamed "back then" was worthy of a duel and LEGAL in Virginia... "hot-headed" people, they were!

 

[tat2guy]

I have looked at the Court Records in Fincastle in regards to the gun duel by James Beverly Risque. The court documents never say that JBR was shot by Thomas Beale-------they only say he was shot in a duel. Maude Clements around 1855 told the duel between JBR and Thomas Beale in her writings. That is where the silk handkerchief is first mentioned and she mentioned Julia (Judy) Hancock as the reason for the duel. This is factual information as Maude Clements was a well known historian for Lynchburg. She knew these people and their stories. I believe I will be like Rebel and stick to the facts by factual people.

Were charges filed? Why is there a court record if the other person isn't listed? The doctor who treated them should have had records.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Were charges filed? Why is there a court record if the other person isn't listed? The doctor who treated them should have had records.

LOL! "CHARGES"...? It was settled out of court with THE DUEL! As to the doctor... NOT LIKELY! JB Risque was TOUGH; didn't need a doctor; his family took care of him. AND! JB Risque left his farm/plantation (Campbell County, Va.) to his daughter (in his WILL); she was married to Giles WARD! JB Ward's FATHER... JB Ward is buried there!

 

[bigscoop]

I think what Tat was questioning was this; Why was there a court record for the duel? Duels were fairly common and legal, what part of this duel involved the courts?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I think what Tat was questioning was this; Why was there a court record for the duel? Duels were fairly common and legal, what part of this duel involved the courts?

MY understanding is that court records may indicate LEGAL proceedings, LATER settled out of court with a DUEL... common thing "back then".

 

[tat2guy]

MY understanding is that court records may indicate LEGAL proceedings, LATER settled out of court with a DUEL... common thing "back then".

Ok got it. Just wondered why the duel and a court document was mentioned together?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ok got it. Just wondered why the duel and a court document was mentioned together?

Court document PROBABLY indicated the "complaint" & threatened legal action (lawsuit); resolved later by DUEL; NO indication that JB Risque was risque... Julia's father was Congressman Col. George Hancock, KIN to JOHN HANCOCK!
NOW! About Fincastle, Va. "back then"... PV (RIP) wrote in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW HISTORY OF A MYSTERY, p. 96... Fincastle, Va. was "seat" of Botetourt County, Va; "a county that once made up an enormous portion of ALL of the land claimed by VIRGINIA. This county spread as far WEST as the Mississippi River. it included ALL of Kentucky, and much of what is now, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and West Virginia". Lewis & Clark left from Fincastle on THEIR Corp of Discovery expedition (TJ era). Clark later went on to St. Louis, MO (with Julia) as an Indian Agent; Lewis became GOVERNOR of the Upper Louisiana Territory, until his death, during the James Madison era. Did the Beale Expedition meet with Indian Agent Clark in St. Loo...? Did YOUNG Thomas Beale see Julia (Hancock) again...? The YOUNG & RESTLESS... spins! AND! St. Loo was IMPORTANT for Ward & one of the Hutter Bros. MORE later!