Land section history question

[Asmbandits]

Correct me if I am wrong, Is the resulting checkerboard pattern of private/forest land sections through most of California, particularly the tahoe national forest still mostly owned by the railroad or has it changed hands? I know there are tons of patented and private lands scattered throughout also, I'm mostly focused on the whole section private areas that have no homestead or otherwise on them.

Doing research for an upcoming utv trip and I see a lot of trial systems crossing through FS land and these "Private" lands yet they are not posted and are not restricted by gates as such.. I'm headed to the county in a couple weeks for something else and will check into this further then but is it safe to say that a a lot of the full sections are still owned by the railroad?? One particular section I've atv'd in quite a bit and never realized it was private until looking into it, you would never know otherwise.. There are quite a few like this with open roads and trails throughout..

 

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[Goldwasher]

Timber companies?

if its private it will have an apn#

have you tried looking it up on parcel maps from the county?

Don't know if Placer county has an equivalent

http://gem.edcgov.us/ugotnet/

once you have a parcel number you can search the recordings for ownership.

 

[Asmbandits]

Forgot about logging! This particular section is in the very visible every other section pattern so just figured most likely is tied up with the rest of them. I'll find out for sure soon enough at the county, not sure if they have a system like that Jarrod that would be nice, good link to have regardless though!

 

[mytimetoshine]

When you look at the area on google maps from high up. There is definitly a checkerboard logging pattern to be seen. "sustainable logging" I assume.

if you got room in the rig for the utv trip im down. i wont even hold on to the oh **** bar for dearlife. Promise lmao!

 

[Asmbandits]

Lmao for sure Eric sending you a text now!

 

[bug]

They used to be owned by the railroad but were sold off. Sierra Pacific industries has most of the private forest now along with some other smaller timber companies.

onXmaps app and you will have all the land owner info right there on your laptop or phone. Property lines and owners names and addresses. Good stuff!

 

[Clay Diggins]

Just go to the County Assessors map and look up the owner. It's free - no need to pay someone for public information. Here's the link for the Placer County map. Here's a free version for your phone.

Really though to save time and get information about where you can prospect check out the Land Status Map on Land Matters, download the Master Title Plat (MTP) from that map to see what restrictions there may be on the public lands. Then it might make sense to check with the County tax assessor. Do these things in a logical order and you will save a boatload of time and disappointment.

Heavy Pans

 

[Asmbandits]

Thanks for the help guys, Mylandmatters.org is always my go to! Barry the link you shared was exactly what I needed thank you!

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Your best bet would be to download the USFS Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM).
There are thousands of miles of roads that have been closed on paper.
They are not gated and there are no signs indicating that you may be ticketed. The risk of getting a ticket driving on a two track logging road is probably relatively low...getting caught driving on an off-road/cross country trail that does not show on the MVUM mapping is a lot higher. Around here LE places trail cams in an attempt to get tag numbers off the stickers.

California state law does not recognize off-road stickers from other states. If your utv is not registered in your state, you have to buy a non-resident OHV use permit.

Private land, be it improved land or timber holdings are not open to off road trail riding unless permission is granted.
Much of the timber land is getting gated off.

 

[Asmbandits]

The timber company or parcel owner gives me permission by not gating or posting the road. I would never expect otherwise from our private land which borders NF which has been posted and gated. Talk about some bs, might not be paper legit but thats some bs if im driving down a road and then somehow I am a trespasser due to the land owners negligence or whatever you would want to call it... People have to take some responsibility in real life if they expect real life results..

 

[Clay Diggins]

Your best bet would be to download the USFS Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM).
There are thousands of miles of roads that have been closed on paper.
They are not gated and there are no signs indicating that you may be ticketed. The risk of getting a ticket driving on a two track logging road is probably relatively low...getting caught driving on an off-road/cross country trail that does not show on the MVUM mapping is a lot higher. Around here LE places trail cams in an attempt to get tag numbers off the stickers.

California state law does not recognize off-road stickers from other states. If your utv is not registered in your state, you have to buy a non-resident OHV use permit.

Private land, be it improved land or timber holdings are not open to off road trail riding unless permission is granted.
Much of the timber land is getting gated off.

A lot of assumptions there IMAUDIGGER.

First the MVUM map is not an indication of closed routes, it only shows approved routes for particular uses within the Forest. Private lands are not within the Forest so their "plan" doesn't apply there. Passing over an ungated road that has been habitually used as a public route is perfectly legal whether it's marked on a MVUM or not.

California State law specifically recognizes the right of non residents to operate their UTV or ATV off road as long as the vehicle is legal for that use in the regulations for the state it is registered in.

Are there any exemptions from the Green or Red Sticker requirements?
Yes. The CVC contains a variety of exemptions including racing events on a closed course, motorized wheelchairs, tractors used for agriculture, golf carts on golf courses, vehicles owned by a non-resident which are registered in their home state, and vehicles owned by government agencies.

Does the Red Sticker riding season apply to non-residents?
Yes. CARB has determined that the Red Sticker riding season applies to California residents and non-residents alike. A non-resident operating a dirt bike or ATV with either a registration or the equivalent from another state or a California Non-Resident OHV Use Permit is restricted to the Red Sticker riding season.

Your reply is very California centric. Different states can have very different laws. In Arizona, for example, ATVs can be registered and used on the highways just like a car. It's a common sight to see people driving down a major highway on an ATV. Driving my ATV through rural Nevada on a State highway one day the trooper objecting to an ATV on his State hwy was surprised to discover that Arizona license tag made even a small three wheel ATV legal for highway use in Nevada even though a Nevada resident couldn't do the same thing.

MVUMs are not created equal. Many MVUM travel plans leave off road travel open for some uses or to ATVs under a certain size. Detail do matter and when it comes to the public lands different agencies and districts have different budgets and attitudes.

Heavy Pans

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I agree. We need more common sense. Many people think that if it’s not posted, they can salvage whatever they see, cut trees, prospect, create new trails, ect.
The limits are when theft or damage starts to occur. That’s what is causing timberland to be gated off.

The dirt bike trails in the pic below showed up overnight. I’d say that’s damage. Which is what I was kind of eluding to.
My common sense tells me that is illegal regardless of a lack of signs.

I have zero hesitation driving on roads crossing private land that are not posted or gated.
Shows right side up when you click on it.



The USFS closing roads/trails on paper but not putting out signs is BS.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Clay-

1- The National Forests near me developed a MVUM map that shows ALL of the open roads and trails which are located within the forest boundaries. It specifies the vehicle types, the season, ect. If it’s located within the forest boundary and is not shown on the MVUM map or allowed via. a written note on the map, it is CLOSED to all motorized vehicles. There won’t necessarily be signs and gates. Obviously this would not apply to private land.
I thought it would be useful to point this out since the OP was looking at planning a trip in California.
Knowing the MVUM maps exists might be useful, especially considering many of the roads that show up on the older USGS quads are not shown on the MVUM maps.

2- The stipulation in California is that the off road vehicle be registered for highway use in your home state. Otherwise you buy a use permit. For instance I have an Oregon Off-Road sticker that is acceptable in Oregon and Nevada, but not California. In order to ride legally I would need
Get my California sticker (because I cannot provide proof of highway registration)
Again the OP was planning a trip to Calif. (I missed the fact that they were from CA).

I also failed to differentiate between private and public lands. Poking around on a phone and it’s difficult to type something out that makes any sense.

 

[Asmbandits]

The dirt bike trails in the pic below showed up overnight. I’d say that’s damage. Which is what I was kind of eluding to.
My common sense tells me that is illegal regardless of a lack of signs.

I see this type of activity mostly on the these parcels of "lumber/rr/private" un posted land that is in question. Most FS land is pretty well monitored and new rouge trails are quick to be dealt with and blocked off by the forest service while also maintaining existing ohv trails fairly well.

Its these lands in between the NF land that seem to be full of logging roads and connecting trails that end up being used buy outdoors men for most whatever they are left open for.

We own a 40 acre lot and another 160 acre plot about a quarter mile up the mountain. At some point years back my cousins created a jeep trail through NF that was a straight shot and saved about 2 miles of switchback to get between the two. It wasn't hurting anything but the FS was quick to block it off. I see 10 times worse in some other areas, and starting to find out a lot of it is on private land I thought was NF.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I see this type of activity mostly on the these parcels of "lumber/rr/private" un posted land that is in question. Most FS land is pretty well monitored and new rouge trails are quick to be dealt with and blocked off by the forest service while also maintaining existing ohv trails fairly well.

Its these lands in between the NF land that seem to be full of logging roads and connecting trails that end up being used buy outdoors men for most whatever they are left open for.

We own a 40 acre lot and another 160 acre plot about a quarter mile up the mountain. At some point years back my cousins created a jeep trail through NF that was a straight shot and saved about 2 miles of switchback to get between the two. It wasn't hurting anything but the FS was quick to block it off. I see 10 times worse in some other areas, and starting to find out a lot of it is on private land I thought was NF.

I too own land that butts public. I posted it and am in the process of fencing it.
Otherwise people would be cutting down random green trees, tearing things up, dumping trash, doing drug deals, getting high, digging holes everywhere, and starting wildfires...basically all the stuff they do on public ground.

I totally agree with what you said about being able to drive on private roads if they are not posted or gated.

Those timber companies own more land than they can control. Kind of a free for all, even if some of the activities are disrespectful or illegal.