Lets Talk BFO

[Michigan Badger]

Some of you remember the old BFO detectors.

Question: Did THers find anything with those old Relco, D-Tex, etc., machines of yesteryear?

Share your thoughts and experiences.

Badger

 

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[THing4CSA]

Hi Badger and all my fellow TH'ers
I started with a Jetco 'Mustang' BFO. I didn't find much in Fordland, MO but once I was in Germany I found a lot of good items including a Nazi Belt buckle, hat emblems all with swastikas. My most exciting find was a recovery I made in Munchen; I had the day off for my birthday and went to our detachment in Munchen, I found many coins bullets, lead toys and such. After spending a half hour recovering a piece of pipe I managed to get it out of the ground and it was not a pipe, what I had found was a 40 lb white phosphor bomb. I was lucky enough to speak with an elderly German gentleman that said when he was 8 or 9 a group of ten Panzer tanks had gotten caught in the open area and were strafed by two US or British Mustangs and were destroyed by a cluster bomb. Mine bomb just happened to have not exploded. Needless to say we ended up having the US Military Police, German Police as well as the German EOD in our back yard. It was all exciting except that I made the 'SIR' Serious Incident Report board.
Now the many great coins include many Mercury and Roosevelt dimes, Washington Quarters, and German coins all the way back to the 1870's. The oldest coin I did manage to find in Augsburg was a Roman coin with no design remaining as it was worn smooth. Relics were everywhere I found a French or Belgium WWI helmet that was rusted pertty bad but I still kept it. Gosh you know that was back in 1978!
I am tempted to find a working Mustang just to see if it works as well as my current detectors. I don't think so! LOL
Good luck to you all in everything you do, be safe and have fun.
Dave Mork
'Digger-Dave'
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!

 

[buscadero]

Badger: My 1st 3 Detectors were BFO. My favorite was a Garrett______? CRS! Probably more Treasure was found w/BFO MD than any other
even to this day! For one thing, they were easy to operate. Turn it on, Tune it to a Faint Null Sound, & Hunt! The Disadvantages were that
there was no Ground Balance, & no Discrimination! You dug Everything! Nowadays, You don't see too many of them around. Most of the Th'ers
that have them would never sell them. They are still an Excellent Detector for Prospecting! They have the ability to Find Pockets of Black Sand better than any other. Until the 70's, when VLF Detectors came out & pretty much took over.

Hope this helped!

Joe

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hi Badger and all my fellow TH'ers
I started with a Jetco 'Mustang' BFO. I didn't find much in Fordland, MO but once I was in Germany I found a lot of good items including a Nazi Belt buckle, hat emblems all with swastikas. My most exciting find was a recovery I made in Munchen; I had the day off for my birthday and went to our detachment in Munchen, I found many coins bullets, lead toys and such. After spending a half hour recovering a piece of pipe I managed to get it out of the ground and it was not a pipe, what I had found was a 40 lb white phosphor bomb. I was lucky enough to speak with an elderly German gentleman that said when he was 8 or 9 a group of ten Panzer tanks had gotten caught in the open area and were strafed by two US or British Mustangs and were destroyed by a cluster bomb. Mine bomb just happened to have not exploded. Needless to say we ended up having the US Military Police, German Police as well as the German EOD in our back yard. It was all exciting except that I made the 'SIR' Serious Incident Report board.
Now the many great coins include many Mercury and Roosevelt dimes, Washington Quarters, and German coins all the way back to the 1870's. The oldest coin I did manage to find in Augsburg was a Roman coin with no design remaining as it was worn smooth. Relics were everywhere I found a French or Belgium WWI helmet that was rusted pertty bad but I still kept it. Gosh you know that was back in 1978!
I am tempted to find a working Mustang just to see if it works as well as my current detectors. I don't think so! LOL
Good luck to you all in everything you do, be safe and have fun.
Dave Mork
'Digger-Dave'
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!

Great post THing4CSA! Thanks a bunch!

I started this post because some seem to be saying that the old BFO machines were worthless but I've met enough BFO users from the 60's & 70's to know they did make their share of great finds.

I recall reading those early treasure magazines and seeing all those coins and relics dug with BFO detectors.

Thanks again and you're an awesome writer!

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

Badger: My 1st 3 Detectors were BFO. My favorite was a Garrett______? CRS! Probably more Treasure was found w/BFO MD than any other
even to this day! For one thing, they were easy to operate. Turn it on, Tune it to a Faint Null Sound, & Hunt! The Disadvantages were that
there was no Ground Balance, & no Discrimination! You dug Everything! Nowadays, You don't see too many of them around. Most of the Th'ers
that have them would never sell them. They are still an Excellent Detector for Prospecting! They have the ability to Find Pockets of Black Sand better than any other. Until the 70's, when VLF Detectors came out & pretty much took over.

Hope this helped!

Joe

As always, great post Joe!

I also agree that probably more was found by those early BFO users than what has been found since the end of that era. Maybe today we're just finding more of the older smaller coins and relics?

Excellent writeup! Thanks!

Badger

 

[THing4CSA]

Hi Badger and all my TH'ing friends
Thank you for your kind words. As for the number of finds being made with those early BFO's I think it may be just that there were not many of the 'newer' detectors on the market yet. The 60's and 70's saw many new detectors hit the market and with each new improved model more older coins were found and with the increase of depth older coins and relics also were brought to light. I think if the newest detectors had come out first and today we would have had BFO's I think things may have been different. Think of it like fast cars; in the early days going sixty miles per hour was thought to be suicide. Now a days if a race car does not go 150 MPH they might as well leave it at home. I say just keep digging and you will find what is out there.
Dave Mork
'Digger-Dave'
PS: Remember; Don't leave it in the ground!

 

[Slingshot]

The first detector I used was a Fisher M scope - BFO unit, in 1964. I remember it would hit a quarter at about 5-6 inches in wet ground. I found a lot of Civil War relics - I lived on a battlefield in Atlanta. I have toyed with the idea of building a BFO unit to use in Australia as a nugget machine - looking for large nuggets only & using a large 36" coil - I feel it would out perform any other commercial detectors being built in this particular application. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

I've made a small fortune proving that BFOs are better than the current crop of detectors. I have only a few VLF and TR detectors and many BFOs. The best general purpose detector in my arsenal is a circa 1974 Bounty hunter Outlaw BFO/ TR hybrid. I don't need or want target ID so that is a meaningless feature to me. exanimo, ss

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Siegfried, not usng a target ID means that you are a true cache and metal detectorist, dig em all when i n doubt.

Tropical Tramp

 

[bakergeol]

My thoughts are similar to buscadero and the others. It is simply difficult to describe the "old days" to young detectorists today. It was an era that when people saw you in the park they had no idea what you were doing. I wouldn't have dreamed of detecting a park if I knew someone else had detected it before I did. Part of the fun was knowing you were the first to swing a coil over a virgin site. My first day metal detecting in a park with a BFO netted me 11 silver halves. What I accomplished in my first day with a BFO would be a life time achievement for today's detectorists. Like the others I can never duplicate the incredible finds I make in the 60's with my lowly BFOs. Makes it difficult today for me to do common coin shooting in areas where hundreds have walked before me.

The BFO's were limited in depth but there is no defining rule on depth of coins or relics. As you dug everything you weren't missing much in your depth range. Pull tags were not bad because they just had been introduced but tin foil did make your life miserable.The first folks to detect Gettysburg with BFOs(yes it wasn't illegal during the early years) found relics which would make today's detectorists drool.

I felt that you could argue all you want about a machines abilities . How deep it will go, target separation, discrimination ability, etc. However, the bottom line is the guy who is first to put his coil over that coin or relic will always be way ahead of the game.


George

 

[tree]

Badger. Back in the early 70's I purchased a brand new Mustang for $29.00. I located the water line to my house and found (saw) a nickel laying on the street curb. That is all I ever found. I couldn't locate a manhole cover under a bed sheet with that thing. Acording to other posters I did not follow directions or had a bad machine. Its "groaning" would change even if the machine wasn't being moved. It had a mind of its own. I threw it in a storage building until I sold it at a yard sale a few years ago for $10.00.
I now want to purchase a "good" detector with more features,better technology, and there are many to choose from. I just hope I learn to follow directions better and have more patience this time.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I just stopped in and am very pleased to see all the comments from some of the top people on this forum...wow! Thanks guys!

So it would appear BFO isn't as silly as some would have us believe, huh?

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

Let's keep this thread going because I see some definite good coming out of it.

I'll ask some questions and please respond or share whatever else you may have.

1. Do you think VLF is always superior to BFO? Explain?

2. If you think BFO technology can be better than VLF for some applications, why do you think it has been abandoned today?

 

[ramjet2187]

My very first metal detector was a gift from Santa, circa. 1977-78 (?). It was a Gold Mountain BFO 'Scout'. Gold Mountain was a subsidiary of Garrett, I think. I loved that machine, and hunted all of the time with it (including the dead of Winter in Central Illinois, with the ground frozed solid down to about 6"!!)

I still have it, and last time I put batteries in it, it still worked.

Ahhhhh, memories.

Roger

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

The one major problem with the early detectors was weight. When you used a square 67 1/2 volt battery you had to be Popeye or your arm fell off. When the manufacturers went to lighter weight detectors they "upgraded" to TR then they "upgraded" to motion detectors then they "upgraded" to G.E.B. / VLF. In each case the thing most upgraded was the price. In each case they removed versatility and fringe features to lower production costs. The main reason that BFO detectors are no longer made is money. They cost less to make and last longer. When the discriminator circuits came in they were very popular. As the sales of TRs to coin shooters increased the manufacturers dropped back to single BFO models. Eventually they all dropped the design "because no one wants them". That lie was shown up by an immediate run on the remaining stocks of BFOs. It is still possible to find mint new in the box Garrett Master hunter BFOs. Many of the pros went and bought five or ten of them just to have spares. In 1978 or 1979 a master hunter with all the loops cost about $500. For that same $2500 you could buy a bunch of new car models. Anyone who thinks their modern detector is a "do anything" machine is invited to go inside a metal quonset hut and learn the facts of life. That little gem has made me a mint of money and had I wanted to bet machines on the outcome I would have dozens of them. When they first came out with discriminator circuits they traded signals for less digging. Don't believe me? Read the posts here. Folks with $1000 machines are not finding nickels and that means they are not finding rings. If all you get to dig are pennies then your $1000 detector means you must dig about 100,000 holes. Just for grins and giggles here is a small list of places where a BFO works and a modern detector sucks wind.
walls inside metal buildings
along and under chain link fences
in cinders
in fire sites
in black sand
in mines
in most modern walls
in concrete with rebar
in mineralized soil
in wet sand (inland fresh water only - not good for salt water)
in high grass
in wet grass
Some folks may exist who can get a signal in these conditions with modern detectors but they will not get as good a signal with a properly operated modern detector as they will get with a properly operated BFO. Last I heard many of the great European finds made recently were done with BFO detectors. If you really must have these modern machines you can get them cheaply in the trader papers or pawn shops. Many of them have never been used. Just make sure that the batteries have not burst and ruined the circuit boards. As a final warning if you folks can't find a gold ring you surely can't find a gold coin. exanimo, ss

 

[buscadero]

Badger: I think the reason that the BFO was surpassed by the VLF was the BFO did not have the Depth Capability nor the Ground Canceling
abilities of the VLF. The BFO is also almost useless around Salt Water.
I will say that I'll bet a BFO owner that really knows his machine, will outperform a VLF or any other MD.


Joe

 

[Michigan Badger]

WOW! Thanks everyone especially Siegfried Schlagrule.

I can say I've learned a lot. I will also say I've always secretly suspected these things. This had to be true for some models and brands or else all those early THers were liars.

I started in the 60's just when the TR machines were coming out. So, I've never personally hunted with a BFO unit.

I plan to experiment on my own.

What old BFO machines were known to be the deepest?

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

the rule of thumb is the bigger the coil the deeper the reach. Garrett Master hunter had a one foot by two foot oval coil and a two foot by two foot square coil. They also had a 3 1/2 inch nugget coil that is very popular. exanimo, ss

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Badger: I think the reason that the BFO was surpassed by the VLF was the BFO did not have the Depth Capability nor the Ground Canceling
abilities of the VLF. The BFO is also almost useless around Salt Water.
I will say that I'll bet a BFO owner that really knows his machine, will outperform a VLF or any other MD.


Joe

Friend Joe, I should have noted the difference between a BFO on wet salt water sand and a BFO on wet inland sand. Since I've never worked with salt water sand I'll have to take the word of those who say it is a bear. Fresh water sand is not that bad. You'll have to admit that the VLF is two generations newer than the BFO and R & D basically ended for the BFO when they quit being sold. Who knows how good they would be now if they had continued to improve each model year? As to depth capabilities. My BFOs will go as deep as I'm willing to dig and then some. On coins it is possible that you can detect a coin deeper BUT is that with or without target ID capability? I'm not the kind of high profile guy who gets offered free detectors for publicity purposes so I'll probably never have one of the newer machines until it is obsolete. I would add to Joe's comment that any coin shooter who really knows his machine can make it jump through hoops. How many times have we heard the laments of a guy who traded in old faithful for the latest set of bells and whistles and lived to deeply regret it? If a guy always trades in his detector each year for the newest thing he will never learn any machine completely. He might have some fantastic finds but what would he have found if he truly knew what his machine was telling him? exanimo, ss

 

[Michigan Badger]

the rule of thumb is the bigger the coil the deeper the reach. Garrett Master hunter had a one foot by two foot oval coil and a two foot by two foot square coil. They also had a 3 1/2 inch bugget coil that is very popular. exanimo, ss

Thanks!