"Lines" on a conch size shell and large vertebrae.

[PetesPockets55]

"Lines" on a conch size shell and large vertebrae.

I was at a local riverbank Sunday detecting but found lots of pottery shards on the bank. I like the red/orange and managed to find some with the dimpled texture as well.

Well, there are two in particular I need your expert input on.
The large vertebrae in the middle left image above and a piece of shell that at first glance just thought it was old and worn (which may very well be all it is.)
(Apologies in advance if I should have split each into their own thread.)

A couple of questions come to mind.
1)Is this most likely just a natural item or are these known to be produced by NA for any purpose? (ie. necklace, games, etc.)
2)Anyone know what animal this might be from? (I'm thinking marine like a large fish)
It is about 1.25" (+-32 mm) in diameter with four rectangular holes around the perimeter. One pair of holes is closer together than the second pair.

The second item is a "conch type" shell with lines on the interior. It is definitely old and worn but all the irregular lines on the inside started to remind me of cuts instead of a natural progression of the shell. The interior of the shell closest to the animal's body is usually the smoothest part but maybe this is an example of what happens in revere as the shell is worn down.

Thanks again for any assistance you fine folks can provide on either of them.
PP55

 

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[CreekSide]

Interesting finds. I don’t know anything about shells but some do.

 

[newnan man]

I see why you are wondering about the shell. The lines don't look natural but are so random it's hard to figure out what could have made them.

 

[Older The Better]

My first impression was fish on the vertebrae too, can’t say if the holes are just a part of the vertebrae or not, and I agree on the shell, especially how the lines turn 90 degrees on the edge, doesn’t seem part of the growth, just some guesses… human, maybe weathered marks from an animal chewing on it, or possibly it got caught in such a way that things drug over it in the river gouging it.

 

[Buckleberry]

The vertebrae looks like a crinoid...those lines do look tooled to a certain degree.
Nice finds.

 

[PetesPockets55]

Interesting finds. I don’t know anything about shells but some do.

Thanks. They surprised me.

I see why you are wondering about the shell. The lines don't look natural but are so random it's hard to figure out what could have made them.

Appreciate the help.
Exactly why I did a double-take and kept it.
I literally had to pick it up again after tossing it back.

It fits perfectly in my hand and I could imagine someone using it to cut something almost like a hand-sized cutting board.

My first impression was fish on the vertebrae too, can’t say if the holes are just a part of the vertebrae or not, and I agree on the shell, especially how the lines turn 90 degrees on the edge, doesn’t seem part of the growth, just some guesses… human, maybe weathered marks from an animal chewing on it, or possibly it got caught in such a way that things drug over it in the river gouging it.

Thanks for the reply.
Each pair of rectangular holes are not equidistant. I'm thinking the closer ones were to the dorsal fins and the wider ones were to the rib cage.

The shell has me going both ways as to whether the lines are natural and an effect of age (there's a lot of age to it) or man-made.

The "river" here doesn't have much of a flow. Mud/sand bottom and an estuary of brackish salt water.
That's what made me wonder if they could be man-made.

The vertebrae looks like a crinoid...those lines do look tooled to a certain degree.
Nice finds.

Thanks. Had to look that term up online. it is similar but it is definitely a vertebrae.

Here's an image of a group of fish vertebrae. I've circled ones that look similar to mine.