i knew i would get on a touchy subject here.....that is why i said nothing about finding anything other than an underground void with this subject that is nearly always attacked by sceptics and unbelievers......people have for centuries located underground water sources with this method....i am not a scientist therefore i do not feel the need to prove a thing to anyone.....knowing you don't believe in it, find someone that knows nothing about it, but is willing to try , don;t feed your negativity to them,.set them up to walk over a known buried pipe or tunnel with said sorcery tools,, and most likely you will at least take another look at what you say is a misguided, misconception....take two compasses , sit them on a table , move them till they are side by side....then move one up and then down...what happens ? ?the needles will point to each other and move back and forth as you move the one compass......why does this happen ? ?the compass you are moving is not north,,it is not a magnet,,, it is meerly ?picking up on a field of some sorts that makes it move....no, i can't explain that either,....but it is the same as with dowsing,,you are picking up on a forcefield if you like.....it is not a perfect science,, it will not by the hidden hand of the ghost that put it there lead you to buried treasure...how many times have you went out with your detector, gotten a decent signal, dug you a hole with nothing there, rechecked with your detector only to get no signal, or be ?picking ?up on a hot rock ? why does this happen ? the rock is not hot, as i have never been burned by one....the empty hole you dug doesn't look like silver or gold, but yet your detector, that you think so much over, picked it up like it was....do you throw your detector in the garbage and say to everyone you meet ?that whomever sold it to you was a quack and deceived you ?? i own a detector because i like to hear all the pretty beeps...i am a believer in whatever works, and on this subject one works about like the other with the exception that one will cause you to dig up all sorts of trash and rocks and the other will save you some of this trouble while at the same time cover a lot more area..............a few months ago i replied to a post someone had about buying their first detector...i told them to buy one that is around a couple hundred bucks, as anything less is either a toy or trash that will half-@$$ work for a few weeks then die....i had several replies to the effect that i was a dumb-@$$,, that all detectors were great, that anyone could find a very good unit for forty bucks at radio shaq....was told that if it works for someone then don't knock it......well i was trying to help this person out, save him the frustration that would come with a cheap toy, and possibly turn him against this hobby .......i will repeat the same to you all now,,, IF IT WORKS FOR SOMEONE THEN DON"T KNOCK IT !! ?thank you for your time, you can now say i'm stupid, ?gldhntr