MANY Hidden Treasures of the West

[Quigley]

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[Quigley]

An Example

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[Army of 1]

Quigley, an interesting and amazing tale , could be the adventure of a lifetime distance precludes me from taking any part , good luck finding an honest reliable partner and good luck with your ventures .. cheers Mick

 

[Quigley]

Sometimes all it takes is an Army of One

Thank you for your response, I was beginning to hear cricket sounds.
It HAS been an adventure of a lifetime, call me spoiled, but I want more.
I am not about to let circumstances of life stop me.

I know it is a long shot, but I have to try, its all I have left.

 

[chlsbrns]

Quigley are you aware of the Antiquities Act and the Archaeological Resources Protection Act?

Check out the very large fines and prison time.

 

[Quigley]

Very aware Perhaps you missed that some are on private land.

 

[chlsbrns]

Very aware Perhaps you missed that some are on private land.

No I didn't miss the private land statement. Being that you are aware of the illegal nature & severe consequences of seeking the alleged valuables that are not on private lands why even mention them? As far as the alleged valuables on private land they come with a whole lot of problems. Access to the lands, negotiating a percentage with the land owners for a share, ect, ect, ect.

You stated: "I will give a synopsis of the many projects I have accumulated and they will choose one, I will then take the individual to it and they can evaluate for themselves as to the authenticity of the project. I will share ALL of the information of the site to the point that if they wanted to run with it for themselves, they could, but, they will be under contract not to reveal anything with respect to the site by way of a non-disclosure agreement"

What would you do if after telling the stories to a private investor they wanted the facts on alleged valuables on Federal land? Would you tell them they could not go after the alleged valuables legally? That they would be subject to large fines and time in prison?

For alleged valuables on private land would you trespass to show a private investor or inform the landowner?

I would suggest contacting the private landowners and making a deal with them. In other words each private landowner would be your investor.

 

[Quigley]

Because there is no law restricting "seeking the alleged valuables that are not on private lands" I will "seek" for what ever I choose on public lands in an effort to unravel the true history of this land. I have documented more native American sites in my day than most can shake a stick at. And if I catch you digging in one of them, well, lets leave that lie. They are my ancestors.

I understand there can be many problems concerning property owners, but I have never had a problem with a land owner. I do not sneak around their backs.
And did you miss that some are in Mexico? And yes, private land again.

Can you tell everyone here what specifically makes a Spanish Silver Bar or Gold, an Antiquity?

 

[Quigley]

What would you do if after telling the stories to a private investor they wanted the facts on alleged valuables on Federal land? Would you tell them they could not go after the alleged valuables legally? That they would be subject to large fines and time in prison?

That remains to be seen, these are the brick walls one often hits, however there are solutions.
What I "would" do is irrelevant and between myself and a partner.

Are we finished with this deposition?
Are you a potential partner?

 

[Quigley]

"I would suggest contacting the private landowners and making a deal with them. In other words each private landowner would be your investor."

I would absolutely include the land owner. The Ute Tribe is a Land Owner.

Now perhaps if you are done playing the prosecution, and I mean this in a kind way because it has to be addressed, perhaps you can switch hats and help find a way to overcome some of the more difficult barriers, there is a way even on Federal Land, every law has exemptions and every law must have authority and there is a provision. Instead of finding every reason to shoot the idea in the foot, use your expertise to find a way to accomplish the goal. What about Treasure Trove Permits?
Do you have any ideas? Because some of these projects will no doubt need these problems resolved.

 

[chlsbrns]

Because there is no law restricting "seeking the alleged valuables that are not on private lands" I will "seek" for what ever I choose on public lands in an effort to unravel the true history of this land. I have documented more native American sites in my day than most can shake a stick at. And if I catch you digging in one of them, well, lets leave that lie. They are my ancestors.

I understand there can be many problems concerning property owners, but I have never had a problem with a land owner. I do not sneak around their backs.
And did you miss that some are in Mexico? And yes, private land again.

Can you tell everyone here what specifically makes a Spanish Silver Bar or Gold, an Antiquity?

Hey don't shoot the messenger! I'm trying to help you by stopping you from fines that you can't afford & keeping you out of prison. You seem to have enough problems. You can search and of the quotes below to find my source of the quotes. These are mainly Federal laws but there are numerous State laws that apply. Notice the private property issues below!

A more recent Federal law, the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979
(ARPA), provides civil and criminal penalties for excavation, destruction, vandalism, or
removal of archeological resources (historic and prehistoric) from public lands. Anything
10 years or older is covered by this law. Criminal penalties of up to $100,000 in fines
and/or five years in prison are possible upon conviction. Civil and criminal damages may
also be assessed, based on the value of the destroyed or stolen remains. ARPA provides
for civil confiscation of vehicles and other personal property used to carry out the
violation, and provides for payment of rewards for information leading to convictions.
For your own protection, do not attempt to apprehend perpetrators yourself, but license
numbers, times, dates, descriptions, (photographs or video tape would be nice) if safely
collectable from a reasonable distance, should be reported to the closest local Federal
authorities and nearest BLM office.

On private or public non-federal lands, an official archaeological site is defined when it has 10 or more artifacts that are 75 years or older

U.S. Federal laws governing recovery of treasure are governed by the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979,[115] Under ARPA, "archaeological resources" more than one hundred years old on public lands belongs to the government.

Furthermore, the Federal policy against spoliation and removal of "archaeological resources" of any type from federal or Indian lands, even coins and scrip less than 100 years old, means it is unlikely that a finder of gold or silver coinage on Federal lands will prevail with an argument that the find constitutes a treasure trove of coinage, but rather "embedded property" that belongs to the property owner, i.e. the government.[117] The broad use of ARPA to target not only archaeological looting but also to prohibit all treasure hunting on federal or Indian lands has been criticized on the grounds that total prohibition and forfeiture simply encourages concealment or misrepresentation of the age of the found coinage or treasure trove, thus hampering archaeological research, as archaeologists cannot study items that when found will never be reported


In addition Spanish treasures in the USA are unlikely as Spain all but gave the Louisiana Territory to France in 1800 due to financial problems. It is unlikely that the Spanish would have given away the land leaving behind treasures being their financial situation was so bad.

 

[Quigley]

<Unloading gun>

And this is great information, now, use that expertise to find a way.
Can you give the Implementing Regulation (CFR) for this "More Recent Federal Law"
With out it, it is of no force and effect, (Not Positive Law) other than the fact that they are going to do what they want to do anyway,
because no one argues the point. When was the last time you heard of the very law being brought into question in a court of law?
Probably a long time. and Why?

 

[chlsbrns]

What about Treasure Trove Permits?

Some of the quotes in my last post were from Wikipedia "Treasure Trove"

Treasure trove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[chlsbrns]

When was the last time you heard of the very law being brought into question in a court of law?
Probably a long time. and Why?

Spain could also claim ownership. Recently US Courts have given treasures to Spain.

AFP: Spain to receive shipwreck treasure after legal battle

 

[Quigley]

"In addition Spanish treasures in the USA are unlikely as Spain all but gave the Louisiana Territory to France in 1800 due to financial problems. It is unlikely that the Spanish would have given away the land leaving behind treasures being their financial situation was so bad.

What does the Louisiana purchase have to do with the west? (New Spain) If Spain was in such bad shape where did all the gold and silver come from that nearly destroyed their economy? Not being argumentative but, what does this have to do with finding a way to accomplish the more difficult tasks at hand? Is the Fed a "Property Owner"

 

[Quigley]

"Spain could also claim ownership. Recently US Courts have given treasures to Spain."

EXACTLY, and I would be more than happy to include them on any project suspect and on Property of "We The People"
I mean, how much can you spend in a day and why?

PS, and I am not trying to be a smart, well you know, but Wiki is not CFR
Here is a question, How does BLM Property become Private Property? Just a thought. How about School Trust Lands?

Incidentally, this is one of the things I have pondered for many months, and it is a real problem of which a solution does exist.
and that is finding someone who can resolve the problem concerning trove found on Public Lands, Find the solution.

 

[austin]

Spain gave the Louisiana Territory to France because Napoleon's brother was on the throne of Spain(put there) and just deeded it to him. You best listen to chisbrns before you end up in deep stuff with the U.S. government. Well, enough said on this subject...

 

[chlsbrns]

"In addition Spanish treasures in the USA are unlikely as Spain all but gave the Louisiana Territory to France in 1800 due to financial problems. It is unlikely that the Spanish would have given away the land leaving behind treasures being their financial situation was so bad.

What does the Louisiana purchase have to do with the west? (New Spain) If Spain was in such bad shape where did all the gold and silver come from that nearly destroyed their economy? Not being argumentative but, what does this have to do with finding a way to accomplish the more difficult tasks at hand? Is the Fed a "Property Owner"

In your first post here you said "I have been a researcher in certain areas of history for nearly 30 years now" I was assuming that you would be aware of American history. The Louisiana Territory encompassed all or part of 15 present U.S. states west of the Mississippi River. If the Spaniards had gold/silver they would have used it to boost the economy, they would not have hauled it into unoccupied territories to hide it & then given the property with the gold/silver to France

You second statement doesn't make sense to me sorry! (If Spain was in such bad shape where did all the gold and silver come from that nearly destroyed their economy?)

Who said gold and silver destroyed their economy? How could all of what gold and silver destroy their economy? How would an abundance of gold and silver destroy an economy?

Yes the Fed is a property owner.

 

[Quigley]

I am not concerned as I have no intention of illegal activity, IF anything in the future concerning Public Lands is considered it will be negotiated with them, after finding competent legal advice. I have had my share of walk abouts with Federal agents in the field and we have had some very interesting conversations.

PS. I am listening in case you haven't noticed? My intent is not to get into trouble, it is to get out of the trouble I am in, and I intend to do it with what I have accumulated by way of unsolicited gathered information over the years. There is a LEGAL way.

 

[Quigley]

LOL, dig a little deeper chlsbrns, I do appreciate your input and comments. ;-)