Marine Archaeologist

[VOC]

Hopefully one day marine archaeologist may wise up and follow their much more intelligent land based counterparts:


We came, we saw, we detected: relics from Caesar era among amateur finds | UK news | guardian.co.uk



The launch today of the Portable Antiquities and Treasure annual reports show that 97,509 finds were recorded by the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) in 2011 (an 8% rise on the previous year) and 970 Treasure cases were reported in the same period (up by 12%).

The PAS website (finds.org.uk) now features 820,000 finds with nearly 400,000 images from across England and Wales contributing enormously to the archaeological record.

Last year 463,160 people used the website and database, and it also won best research/online collection at the Best of the Web awards 2011 at the Museums and the Web conference.

Increasingly more and more people are becoming aware of the PAS. In July this year Britain's Secret Treasures, which highlighted 50 finds recorded through the PAS, was screened primetime on ITV1 from 16-22 July. The series was watched by an average of 3.5 million viewers, the highest being 4.2 million.

Neil MacGregor, Director of the British Museum said:

"It is clear from the discoveries reported this year that the Treasure Act and Portable Antiquities Scheme goes from strength to strength. The ITV series this year shows just how much these finds have captured the public's imagination and changed our understanding of the past. It is a scheme which is envied the world over. I am very grateful to the Department for Culture Media and Sport for continuing to support the Scheme and to Treasure Hunting magazine who have continued to publish PAS reports . And to other generous funders such as The Headley Trust, Institute for Archaeologists and the Heritage Lottery Fund who support staff to ensure that the Scheme can continue its vital work. As well as the funding bodies who have helped acquire Treasure finds."


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Ed Vaizey, Minister for Culture, Communications and Creative Industries, said:

"It never ceases to amaze me that such incredibly important objects have survived in the ground for many hundreds of years, waiting to be found by everyday people. Not only are these objects extremely exiting discoveries, but once reported Treasure or recorded with the Portable Antiquities Scheme they have great potential to rewrite the history of this country, and enrich local and national museums".
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[Zodiacdiverdave]

I read that today as well, they really have a good thing going don't they?
ZDD

 

[signumops]

Yes they do. I would think that might have worked here in the U.S. twenty years ago, however, by relegating the concern to each of the respective states, injecting the interests of fifty different sets of bureaucrats, at least fifty varieties of academic authoritarians, and fifty different sets of law enforcement officials at three consecutive levels, too many interests are at stake. I am not aware of a single state that has something like the PAS going for it. Florida, for example, gave up its Incidental Finds program for reasons they will not own up to. That leaves us with the option of federalist regulatory structure that always resorts to corporal methods first, before consideration of any inducement to cooperation. Behold the National Park Service and the Dept. of Homeland Security. The schism between the governed and those doing the governing here in America at least, is practically beyond reconciliation. "You didn't build that" "You didn't find that" "You can't have that" "You're stupid, we're smart" and on and on. In Britain it seems that everyday people amaze the academics, while on our side of the pond, everyday people are suspect.

 

[theseeker]

Yes they do. I would think that might have worked here in the U.S. twenty years ago, however, by relegating the concern to each of the respective states, injecting the interests of fifty different sets of bureaucrats, at least fifty varieties of academic authoritarians, and fifty different sets of law enforcement officials at three consecutive levels, too many interests are at stake. I am not aware of a single state that has something like the PAS going for it. Florida, for example, gave up its Incidental Finds program for reasons they will not own up to. That leaves us with the option of federalist regulatory structure that always resorts to corporal methods first, before consideration of any inducement to cooperation. Behold the National Park Service and the Dept. of Homeland Security. The schism between the governed and those doing the governing here in America at least, is practically beyond reconciliation. "You didn't build that" "You didn't find that" "You can't have that" "You're stupid, we're smart" and on and on. In Britain it seems that everyday people amaze the academics, while on our side of the pond, everyday people are suspect.

Well said Terry !

 

[VOC]

“In Britain it seems that everyday people amaze the academics, while on our side of the pond, everyday people are suspect”

We are ok above water, but we are put in the same class as Child Molesters, Granny Bashers and Bank Robbers when it comes to wanting to excavate on an old wreck site, even if it is for archaeological purposes.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

I couldn't have said it better myself Terry.
Here on the north side of the boarder they have adopted similar regulations as the UNESCO proposals and to leave everything instu. The thing is the North Atlantic is not that kind to shipwrecks. She can take a ship the size of a freighter and grind it to scrap metal in less then 50 years. so what do you think our wooden ships look like if they wreck on a granite shoal. I have found port holes from a Liberty Ship sunk during WWII that was broken it pieces. That takes some serious pounding to brake a hunk of brass like that. Then She takes those smashed up bits and pieces and can spread them over 25 miles. I would hardly call that protecting the ship and artifacts for future generations and what use is it academically, what can we learn from a ship that has been turned into splinters and everything that did survive has been mixed in with all the other shipwrecks along that coast.
Here all salvage permits have been revoked and not even the museum staff are going to raise artifacts for preservation or display. Personally I think they are all nuts and are missing a huge opportunity to have the public pitch in to recover this pieces of history, bring them to the archaeologists for study and cataloging, and provide an opportunity for the museums to purchase the item rather then confiscate it and slap a fine on the finder.
That's my rant for today, Happy Hunting everybody.
ZDD

 

[signumops]

“In Britain it seems that everyday people amaze the academics, while on our side of the pond, everyday people are suspect”

We are ok above water, but we are put in the same class as Child Molesters, Granny Bashers and Bank Robbers when it comes to wanting to excavate on an old wreck site, even if it is for archaeological purposes.

Well... Hell! You could have left me with a merry impression of good will this time of year. I would have preferred to think there was some good sense in our ancestral common-law motherland. Should have known better... BUT

The Florida State model fell apart as soon as they (the government, of course) realized that patrimony did not apply to the Atocha. Thereafter, the archaeological combine given charge of oversight in Florida withdrew their horns and dug in with the typical self-preservation behavior that fundamentally revolves around the principal of : "If I can't have it, you can't either". This battle focused only upon themselves and the treasure hunters, with no consideration given to the public at large, even though the authorities, whomever they may be, are claiming to act as "protectors of cultural heritage" by fending off the "looters". Bear in mind this is now all rooted in propaganda and dogma, rather than rational commerce.

Originally, Florida required all treasure hunting crew members be fingerprinted, theoretically for the purpose of background checks. Actually, this was a ruse, devised to scare off the treasure hunters as the government was absolutely certain that the treasure hunters were all convicted felons who would resist a visit to the local Florida Highway Patrol office where those nasty, less-than-cordial policemen would imply that a booking procedure was in play, rather than a background check. I did that on two different occasions; once for New Channel Historical Survey Group, and a second time for the Real 8 group. Knowing now that such a background check vis-a-vis fingerprint comparison was not something the FBI would do for such an unfounded threat back in the 60's, I realize that this was simply an exercise in chest-thumping on the part of the bureaucrats. Today, fingerprint cross-checking is automated and would, in fact, elicit criminal data on anybody in a few minutes. Theoretically, I support such filtering of potential actors in the business. I've known a few that I would not car-pool with, much less trust with a hand full of cobs.

Florida also had a paid crew of about a dozen inspectors that they put on each boat doing any excavations. These guys did nothing except record positions and verify the daily booty. They also acted as proctors for the state's archaeologists... sort of. Evidently, Florida found that, over time, this was too costly and they quit the first-person oversight idea when fiscal restraints came into play. In other words, Floridians did not see any return on this investment and curtailed the budget, or, the bureaucrats decided that they could spend that money for other purposes. I'd venture that it would not take much to figure out where the money was allocated in the long run. Most importantly, these state inspectors had no authority, under law, to manage the behavior of the treasure hunters in any immediate sense. They only had arrest authority when accompanied by a law enforcement officer, and frankly, most police agencies have other pressing duties that make such worries ridiculous in comparison. In short, these dogs had no teeth.

In principal, I find the original proctorship idea workable and satisfactory so long as I don't have to pay for it. In keeping with that, I would think it possible for underwater archaeologists-in-training to act on behalf of the state without draining the budgets of the affected bureaus they represent by way of scholarships and grants. As independent agents, the students could get their field-work done, and supply the state with the lost data they now claim to be the root of their discontent. My friend, Dr. Bob Baer, is pursuing this design with constructive negotiations at FIT. We shall see what comes of it in the following months.

 

[wreckdiver1715]

So true, so true... Well said Terry!

 

[Crow]

Gentlemen some excellant comments here. I could not agree more with your comments. The Unesco agreement was not about preservation of shipwrecks it was about academics keeping privatisation away from their profession. Leaving wrecks in situ is unrealistic as all shipwreck are in some process of destruction by the forces of nature.

Crow