Mel Fshers Favorite Coin?

[divewrecks]

According to this Ebay auction the coin "was set aside by Mel Fisher from other coins to be apart of his own collection":

http://cgi.ebay.com/1715-Spanish-Treasure-Fleet-Coin_W0QQitemZ150322702666

Good thing Mel left the coin grading to his staff of professionals! <grin>

 

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[TNBob]

This is an obvious and outright lie as no documentation from the Fishers says that it was part of his personal collection. Keep the bidding at 99Cents!

 

[Old Bookaroo]

"Most 8 'Piece of Eight' coins are circular in shape but this one is square."

Could it be "square" because it isn't a "Piece of Eight?"

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaneer

 

[divewrecks]

Mel knew it was "hip to be square". Check out this one. Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Oh, yeah, that is a Mexico 1730G. Sewall Menzel says "Captain Diego Gonzalez de la Cueva served as the working assayer at the mint, where he purchased the chief or master assayer position in 1731. The quality of his silver and gold coinage is poor, with only partial devices and almost no legends. Since the production with his assayer's initial was limited, the coins are somewhat scarce."

I guess the captain was a bit on the lazy side and figured it was easier to make a square coin than a round one. My strike is fairly good, but as per Menzel's description there is no legend.

This came from a land hoard that was discovered in Acapulco. Nearly all of the coins (picture attached) were 1730, so you can see quite a few square or rectangular ones in the pile. I wish I had made the find! I don't know who did, but if anyone can give me any additional info on the discovery I would appreciate it.

Stan

 

[Michigan Badger]

Moving from the 1715 site to the famous Atocha site, maybe I'm way out of line here but I sometimes wonder how many of these genuine Atocha cobs really came from the Atocha wreck site.

I wonder if in 100 years someone will figure the Atocha must of been as big as Noah's ark to have carried all the cobs claimed to have been on it.

Guess I'd better just keep still.

MB

 

[divewrecks]

Badger, you might find this to be of help:

The Atocha took on silver coins from a variety of ports in her travels throughout the Caribbean. At Puerto Belo 70,177 ½ pesos of coins (a peso being one ounce, and valued at eight reales), in 48 separate accounts, was put onboard. At Cartagena, 57,916 ½ pesos in 24 accounts were loaded, and at Havana, 26,556 ¼ pesos in 25 accounts. This is a total of 154,650 ¼ pesos of silver coin. This does not reflect the number of individual coins but rather their aggregate value. Many of the pieces would have been of smaller denominations, and this was certainly the situation found on the site. Of 113,863 coins recovered from the Atocha in 1985, 0.001% (110) were 1 reale pieces, 15.0% (17,088) 2 reales, 21.8% (24,853) four reales, and 63.1% (71,808) eight reales. Using this sample, converting it to pesos, and then applying its denomination ratios to the full, registered cargo, it can be figured that somewhere around 198,850 individual coins originally shipped on the Atocha."

The initial find in 1985 included 52 chests of coin averaging 1900 coins each. It would have been easy to flood the market to the point that coins were worth little more than bullion, but the Fishers exercised prudence in their marketing practices.

I don't think you will see any shortage of Atocha coins for sale for some time.

Stan

 

[Michigan Badger]

Thanks Stan.

We all see "genuine" Atocha cobs with "authentic" COA's on ebay. These are tempting because they usually go for about 1/2 to 1/10 the price charged by the Fisher people.

Question: How may we be sure we're getting a genuine Atocha cob and not one found elsewhere?

Thanks,

MB

 

[divewrecks]

I would say that if it has a Fisher picture cert which lists a coin ID number you are OK. I think if you are armed with the number you can (for a fee) purchase a replacement cert from the Fishers or possibly verify that the coin you have or are looking at matches the one in their picture database. I do know that some of the Fisher certs have a seal embossed on the certificate paper. The Fishers wholesale coins to other dealers so that is where the discrepency in price comes from. They can afford to keep the prices at a premium on their web site and at their two museums.

Stan

 

[Michigan Badger]

I would say that if it has a Fisher picture cert which lists a coin ID number you are OK. I think if you are armed with the number you can (for a fee) purchase a replacement cert from the Fishers or possibly verify that the coin you have or are looking at matches the one in their picture database. I do know that some of the Fisher certs have a seal embossed on the certificate paper. The Fishers wholesale coins to other dealers so that is where the discrepency in price comes from. They can afford to keep the prices at a premium on their web site and at their two museums.

Stan

Yes, the best prices I've seen are from collectors who just decide they no longer want the cob. I got a dandy once off ebay for $250. The detail was mostly great but no date.

My best deals have come from buying large collections from unknown shipwrecks. Once I bought about 50 pieces of 8 for $20-$30 each. I sold them for about $50-$150 each as fast as I could hand them out. Deals like that are rare.

MB

 

[divewrecks]

There are some more coins on Ebay from the same land hoard I discussed earlier in this thread. If anyone is interested they can look here:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnumismexico

Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks Stan.

We all see "genuine" Atocha cobs with "authentic" COA's on ebay. These are tempting because they usually go for about 1/2 to 1/10 the price charged by the Fisher people.

Question: How may we be sure we're getting a genuine Atocha cob and not one found elsewhere?

Thanks,

MB

Keep in mind that authentic replica Atocha cobs were also made from the many silver bars found and come with a certificate of authenticity from the Atocha.

 

[Tnmountains]

I had a cousin who invested with Mel fisher. He dove with him and his son before his son died. When they hit the motherload he was rewarded with many emeralds. He said they looked like melted coke bottles and traded them back to Mel for gold and silver. I was given several of the pieces of eight with a certificate with mels singnature and a grading with a letter by my cousin on his adventures with Mel. They are nice to have.My cousin kept some and donated the rest to Hunter musuem for an exhibit on the atocha. the musuem sold the collection and bought a painting : (. Oh well i know mine are real and the gold coins he kept. he let me borrow one gold coin for a middle school class that was studying history. I had not heard of any fakes from the atocha as mentioned in a post above. Mine do have a letter about the atocha and an assayers card with grade with each coin. I had thought of posting them but figured that stuff was pretty common on here. Enjoy the site very fun.
Tnmountains

 

[divewrecks]

Thanks for the post TNMountains. The folks on this little group sure like to hear stories like that - thanks for contributing. There were lots of coins from the Atocha, but the cool thing is that all cobs have their own unique personality. What are your coins graded? Do any of the coins display a full or partial date? Weight is also of interest since many of the Atocha coins suffered significant weight loss from corrosion.

Stan

 

[Tnmountains]

Thanks for the post TNMountains. The folks on this little group sure like to hear stories like that - thanks for contributing. There were lots of coins from the Atocha, but the cool thing is that all cobs have their own unique personality. What are your coins graded? Do any of the coins display a full or partial date? Weight is also of interest since many of the Atocha coins suffered significant weight loss from corrosion.

Stan

Hello
Here is what it says about the coins. It has a picture of the coin and then the coin number on the notorized certificate from Treasure Salvors and where the coin was discovered and the story. Here is what it says about the coins
Denomination: 8 Reale
Mint: Potosi
weight:26.70
Grade: Three (3)
weight:26.70
Reign:Philip 111
assayer:T
Date:162#
origin #487
Another one says
Denomination 8 Reale
Mint:Potosi
weight: 23.30
Grade Two (2)
Reign : Philip 111
assayer: Not visible
Date: ####
Origin #565
The edges of the coins are pretty thick and uneven. The cross is very visible as is the shield. I imagine that they were all stuck together in large clumps. I enjoy my cousins letter with his adventures with Mel best. I have always been a collector of ancient artifacts mostly Indian but being in the Tennessee valley and in Chattanooga it was an easy transition to Civil war artifacts and then finding coins along the way. But these coins and things of this type are in a league of their own. I have enjoyed all the post and the site is great for research and advice. Maybe one day I will find a bit of Eight myself.
Would be interested if the weight is normal for a coin of this type.
Thank you.
Tennessee Mountains

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Tnmountains, Please post the Pictures, would love to see them, as Stan said they are all different.
Good weight on the grade three.
Cheers, Sam

 

[Tnmountains]

Tnmountains, Please post the Pictures, would love to see them, as Stan said they are all different.
Good weight on the grade three.
Cheers, Sam

Sam
I will tomorrow tonight ok? I am redrawing some old civil war photos against the mtns for angles and contours for a hunt Sunday while the leafs are still off and rattlers are still slow. I was thinking I might go over and shoot the gold coins for you guys to see sometime as well. Do you want a front and back of the coin ? And should I post here or new topic under ya'lls section ?
Regards
mtns

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Tnmountains, post away, front and back please, Gold coins good luck with your hunt and
watch out for those rattlers, at least your snakes warn you when you get close
Cheers, Sam

 

[Tnmountains]

Tnmountains, post away, front and back please, Gold coins good luck with your hunt and
watch out for those rattlers, at least your snakes warn you when you get close
Cheers, Sam

Sam
Beleive it or not the Timber rattlers hardly ever buzz before they strike. If you step on one he will buzz like crazy. With head phones on searching I am thinking they will hit the coil first. The copperheads are really the worst around here. Will do on the coins
Mtns

 

[Tnmountains]

As promised here are a few pictures. I am not very good at taking photos as the coins look gold !! I wish. They are silver but I hope the detail is there for you to see. Have a great weekend.
TnMountains