metal detecting on navigable water through private property CA

[schnackj]

I want to do some metal detecting in a seasonal stream that runs through private property. If I can access the stream through a public easement I should be allowed to travel below the high water mark oh a navigable water even if its a seasonal stream. This is usually done by hunters, fishers, and inter-tubers. I know states have their own rules about private property and navigable waters. Does anyone know if I could use a metal detector in the state of California in a stream like this or would that be considered trespassing?

 

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[mts]

Good question. I'm also interested in the answer.

 

[No gold in NY]

Check your local laws. Most States own the water. The land owner owns the land. You can fish the water, but if you drop anchor, you are trespassing.

 

[sprailroad]

It would seem that in some places the land owner owns up to the high water mark, other places, to the center of the stream, river or whatever, I really do not know anymore. Sometimes I feel like when I leave my front door, I am or will be trespassing somehow, in some way, somewhere. Could be why comfort food sells so well.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

In Idaho, everything below the high waterline is public. It's actually in the state Constitution. But a spring creek, that originates on private land, is a different story
Jim

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

Quite a few things need to be checked as this could be someone's gold claim, would any digging in the river be considered a form of dredging or would you be upsetting some aquatic animals nesting abilities or stirring up the silt therefore causing a fish die off because they couldn't breathe. I am being flippant with a bit of humor or am I? because in this State, all of these can used to make it so you can't do any thing water related. The one I would really be concerned with, is if it is someone's claim. The rest are B.S. E.P.A. issues but can follow with big fines if a Karen doesn't want you out there. Just ask the land owners for permission and a lot of your problems will be solved. They may say go for it. Who knows, I live in the Central Valley also and I may have already taken all the goodies out of there. LOL

 

[mts]

I intend no offense, but this is why people despise Californians.

Just because you are legally allowed to do it, doesn't mean it is right.

Show some respect...........Go knock on the door, introduce yourself, and get permission.

I am usually one who agrees about getting permission. But in this case I think the question is more along the lines of who actually owns the water in California. It doesn't make much sense to knock on the door of a private land owner to ask them for permission to hunt something that they don't own anyway. I have no idea who owns the waterways in California. But I think that is the first question that needs to be answered.

 

[ticndig]

I live on a river , I don't own the water but I do own and pay taxes on the land under it. It's hard to own the water since it's moving. sure you can run a boat up the river ,just don't touch bottom.

 

[mts]

There is a difference between ownership and being navigable. Being navigable implies the right to use the waterway for travel. That does not imply the right to dig or even get out of your boat. That would be up to each state. And it does not tell us who owns the land and who we would need to ask for permission.

In Ohio, my understanding is that the land owners on each side own their half of the river. Of course, rivers can change course and rise and fall so it seems like this could vary by the week. The "high water mark ownership" rule does not apply in Ohio. In Ohio, if it is a navigable waterway, you are legally allowed to kayak down the river and even get out and walk on the bank up to the high water line in an emergency. But you would probably not legally be allowed to dig or metal detect in the river or on the bank without permission.

I don't know what the law is like in California or how they determine ownership rights. But I'm curious to know the answer.

 

[Honest Samuel]

1. A big welcome from the great state of Connecticut.

 

[beekbuster]

In the once great state of California it is legal to use navagatable water to pass through, or fish. but the ground under the water is owned by the land owner. they dont own the water or game, but they do own the ground. so unless it is a public greenbelt, the minerals are not public property.

 

[malenkai]

This is sort of like the sidewalk strip question. Around here, the sidewalk strips are public property, but some homeowners still give you attitude about detecting them.

Likewise, clearly the OP does not know who owns the water, so maybe the landowner doesn't either. So, you may get attitude even if you are legally allowed to be there if you don't ask permission.

I once got attitude hunting public property based on the parcel map from the county GIS. A landowner in the next parcel thought he owned it, and booted me. I left because I didn't want argue with him; he was very mean spirited. So you never know.

 

[Clay Diggins]

If you think you will find gold floating in the water feel free to detect it.

Once that gold settles onto the land at the bottom of the waterway it's no longer within the public easement - it's now on the private property underneath the water and doesn't belong to the public.

The thing about public easements, whether they be water easements or sidewalk/road easements, is that even though they give the public the right to pass over the private property the public has no right to the land underneath the easement. Found objects and minerals, whether on the surface or in the ground of the easement, still belong to the property owner the easement passes over.

Water and property law vary considerably from state to state but you can take as fact that the physical support (soil, minerals and found objects) for those easements still belong to the owner of the property that granted the easement in every state.

Heavy Pans

 

[Noah_D]

There is a difference between ownership and being navigable. Being navigable implies the right to use the waterway for travel. That does not imply the right to dig or even get out of your boat. That would be up to each state. And it does not tell us who owns the land and who we would need to ask for permission.

In Ohio, my understanding is that the land owners on each side own their half of the river. Of course, rivers can change course and rise and fall so it seems like this could vary by the week. The "high water mark ownership" rule does not apply in Ohio. In Ohio, if it is a navigable waterway, you are legally allowed to kayak down the river and even get out and walk on the bank up to the high water line in an emergency. But you would probably not legally be allowed to dig or metal detect in the river or on the bank without permission.

I don't know what the law is like in California or how they determine ownership rights. But I'm curious to know the answer.

Hmmm... well that makes my summer plans a little more complicated.

 

[Matthews940]

https://www.portsanluis.com/Documen...-Lands-Commission---Draft-Public-Access-Guide

I was looking into this as well and this is what I found. It's really quite ridiculous just how much they're splitting hairs in my opinion. Most of the creeks and rivers near me are controlled, so they don't see much of a fluctuation in high and low boundaries.

 

[midalake]

I want to do some metal detecting in a seasonal stream that runs through private property. If I can access the stream through a public easement I should be allowed to travel below the high water mark oh a navigable water even if its a seasonal stream. This is usually done by hunters, fishers, and inter-tubers. I know states have their own rules about private property and navigable waters. Does anyone know if I could use a metal detector in the state of California in a stream like this or would that be considered trespassing?

Complicated, yes.

One should look into several things. Riparian rights and Meander Lines. Since I own all the land around a small private lake. There is a few things I can share.

In general, if a stream is deemed navigable you may traverse it through private property. However the property owner retains riparian rights and any standing on solid ground would be trespassing.

Same case with items that have easements like powerlines and train tracks. The Ownership of the land is retained by the owner and there is no course of access to other parties.

Now in the case of owning something like water. There is another factor with Meander Lines. In my case, this particular piece of water does not have meander lines and was not done buy Govt. survey. Therefore I own the surface to the bottom and water included.

A little reading here: Meander Lines - Michigan Riparian Rights Resource Center - Outside Legal Counsel PLC | Hemlock, Michigan

 

[augoldminer]

if the land is under a mining claim every thing is property of the claim owner but the water.
it's the same with mineral rights land.

 

[Clay Diggins]

if the land is under a mining claim every thing is property of the claim owner but the water.
it's the same with mineral rights land.

That's not entirely true augoldminer. The mining claimant only owns the valuable locatable minerals on their claim. Some minerals like gravel, sand, stone, pumice, pumicite, common clay, and cinders are reserved for sale by the United States. Other minerals like gas/oil/coal, potash, sodium, native asphalt, solid and semisolid bitumen, bituminous rock, and phosphate are reserved for lease by the United States.

You are correct that most subsurface mineral lands in private ownership don't have these restrictions on mineral ownership unless the restriction was spelled out in the patent grant. You really do need to check that patent on private property though because the U.S. has prosecuted quite a few landowners for selling sand and gravel that was reserved to the United States in the patent. Other common reservations include helium and coal.

Heavy Pans

 

[HuntinDog]

The OP asked this question back in Jan. and never came back.
He said seasonal so I would think it was pretty much dry.
My answer is you better ask permission to dig.