Moon Coins

[Crispin]

Hey folks,
I've been working with Don I trying to identify these in the Spanish Cob section. Wonder if anybody had any ideas. The best featured coin is currently 19.5mm, 1.28g, and nitric acid tested for silver. The area I am hunting is on the Gulf Coast, Spanish port, where Native Americans traded and interacted. I realize these probably can't be identified but would appreciate ideas. Thanks for looking.

 

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[ivan salis]

well with the size of a dime -- and being thin --there is a Spanish 1 reale possible

 

[Crispin]

Best estimated period of excavation site is 1670s to 1720s. Does this narrow it down to any one reales i can look for?

 

[jerseyben]

Remember that cobs are irregular. Your coins (for the most part) appear to be round and thus "milled". Some possibilities:

• Philip IV, 1621-1665
• Charles II, 1665-1700
• Philip V, 1700-1746
• Luis I, 1724
• Fernando VI, 1746-1759

 

[Turbo21]

Looks to me like corroded zinc penny's. Zinc penny's are 19.05 mm. And 2.5 grams. I see copper at the edges

 

[jerseyben]

Looks to me like corroded zinc penny's. Zinc penny's are 19.05 mm. And 2.5 grams. I see copper at the edges

Given that a zinc cent is 19.05 mm and a corroded piece would lose metal, it is not a match. Crispin said that his best coin above is 19.5mm, which is larger than a non-corroded zinc cent.

He also said that they were already tested for silver. So...

 

[Mackaydon]

Remember the history of Florida; it was under British control from 1763 until 1783. Could the 'coin' be British?
Don....

 

[Crispin]

Not going through this "not silver" thing again. Here is the test with nitric acid. Copper gives off a bright blue. Silver turns white. Zinc reacts violently to produce a yellow smoke. I find zinc pennies all the time...This has been in vinegar for over 48 hours. The zinc pennies I dig up go in vinegar as well, they completely disintegrate. IF there was some degree of copper mixed in with the coin at all then it will leech out to the surface over time. That could easily account for what you are looking at. Plus...it is 19.5mm with the calipers.

Yes, they could be British. This port was active well past when the Native Americans died off of disease. I don't think they are American...no real theory to get American coins there.

 

[jerseyben]

IMO, they are Spanish 1 Real milled coins with severe environmental damage.

 

[Turbo21]

Not going through this "not silver" thing again. Here is the test with nitric acid. Copper gives off a bright blue. Silver turns white. Zinc reacts violently to produce a yellow smoke. I find zinc pennies all the time...This has been in vinegar for over 48 hours. The zinc pennies I dig up go in vinegar as well, they completely disintegrate. IF there was some degree of copper mixed in with the coin at all then it will leech out to the surface over time. That could easily account for what you are looking at. Plus...it is 19.5mm with the calipers.

Yes, they could be British. This port was active well past when the Native Americans died off of disease. I don't think they are American...no real theory to get American coins there.

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Sorry for the doubt. I am not sure about the is this silver question. If you asked for an id before I didn't see it. Just going by what I see here and having them in your hand makes a world of difference. Good luck on the id

 

[Crispin]

Sorry for the doubt. I am not sure about the is this silver question. If you asked for an id before I didn't see it. Just going by what I see here and having them in your hand makes a world of difference. Good luck on the id

No worries. Thanks for trying to help. There were some pretty significant flame wars about my ability to determine silver. I think it has finally died down. It has nothing to do with you. If you have any other ideas please feel free to comment. Provided they are silver ideas...

 

[Nitric]

This might be an out there suggestion? That I don't even know if it is possible, Maybe someone else would know. Is there a way to bring back some, maybe even a trace of detail to worn silver? Or Are stamped coins from dies different in density(?). I know what I'm trying to spit out! Don't know the words! Is a cob different than a dime in the metal. the way it was stamped. Can the metal be looked at under a microscope of some kind to see what the pressures did to the metal. Or can acid bring back some minute detail from the stretched or pulled metal, like bringing back ground off serial numbers on a gun.

 

[huntsman53]

This might be an out there suggestion? That I don't even know if it is possible, Maybe someone else would know. Is there a way to bring back some, maybe even a trace of detail to worn silver? Or Are stamped coins from dies different in density(?). I know what I'm trying to spit out! Don't know the words! Is a cob different than a dime in the metal. the way it was stamped. Can the metal be looked at under a microscope of some kind to see what the pressures did to the metal. Or can acid bring back some minute detail from the stretched or pulled metal, like bringing back ground off serial numbers on a gun.

This can only be done with coins that were minted under extreme minting/striking pressure and as far as I know, cannot be done with Silver or Gold coins! Since the metal where the details (i.e. images, lettering and date) is much more dense due to the pressure exerted on the metal during the minting/striking process than the metal surrounding these (i.e. the fields or flat surfaces of the coins), acid can be used to eat away the less dense metal, thus revealing the date and possibly lettering and images, if a person wants to go this far with the coin. The problem is, that the acid does a lot of damage to the coins and in some cases, it can totally destroy them. This is not unlike the process that the FBI or other Law Enforcement Agencies use to restore the Serial Number on a gun that was used or thought to be used in a crime!


Frank

 

[Crispin]

Thanks guys!

This sounds like a great idea to me. I'll bust out the nitric acid tonight and see what I can do. Do you think I should let the acid sit flat on the coin or hold it vertically so it hits the coin and then washes down by gravity?
Crispin

 

[Crispin]

Okay, they got a good soaking in acid. Weight is now down to .99. This will be the last cleaning I do on this coin because I don't want to lose it. See if you guys can make anything other then voodoo out of these...