More Proof that J. Frank Dalton was Jesse Woodson James

[Pinwheel]

Yes, I have opinions, but I tend to keep those a bit tame on the forum. Regarding paganism, the world's greatest current example is St Peter's Basilica in Rome. Walk around in there and take a close look at the symbols, geometry, art (personality worship), vestments, and other accoutrements used by the church. You might see numerous links to Egypt and beyond - if not directly, at least in practice. Sun gods have always been religions' heros.

Springfield. I am glad you brought this fact up. People like to follow what they have been taught or what they now believe. People are always trying to force the evidence to fit their theory or belief system. When in reality they aught to be following the evidence where it leads. That is why the truth is not more available.

What you bring to light is fact. The Mistic's want to suppress it. The Christians want to deny it. The Truth is that in different periods of time and different popes the Mystic's have been in charge of the roman catholic Church. When one comes to term with this concept Things began to change.

To the modes this is not evanglizing, This is a discussion about how symbols can or should be interpreted.

Here is another truth. There is no such thing as a christian mystic. Just like there is no such thing as a Christian muslim. It is impossibe. Each one serves a different god and they are enemies.

Pinwheel

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Springfield. I am glad you brought this fact up. People like to follow what they have been taught or what they now believe. People are always trying to force the evidence to fit their theory or belief system. When in reality they aught to be following the evidence where it leads. That is why the truth is not more available.

What you bring to light is fact. The Mistic's want to suppress it. The Christians want to deny it. The Truth is that in different periods of time and different popes the Mystic's have been in charge of the roman catholic Church. When one comes to term with this concept Things began to change.

To the modes this is not evanglizing, This is a discussion about how symbols can or should be interpreted.

Here is another truth. There is no such thing as a christian mystic. Just like there is no such thing as a Christian muslim. It is impossibe. Each one serves a different god and they are enemies.

Pinwheel

Eh...?

 

[Pinwheel]

Eh...?

Hay rebel. I do not know if you are growling or asking a question?

 

[senior deacon]

Pinwheel I have to throw a few things your way and see what your opinion after you read them are. Christian mysticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That is the first one the second is Grigori Rasputin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I am of the opinion that in all religons that there is a certain amount of Mysticism that will show up sooner than later. Any time that a miracle takes place or something happens that can's be explained away it is termed as mystical. We as human beings like to have explanations for every thing. Mysticism is a way for some things to be explained away. For me it's God's Will for others it's Mysticism.

Senior Deacon

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hay rebel. I d not know if you are growling or asking a question?

LOL! "Asking" for clarification... I AM a Christian Mystic; don't need NO church...

 

[Pinwheel]

Senior Deacon and Rebel. In no way do i intend to be offensive or to seem like i am trying to attack any one. I am not and if I have offended any of you guys I am sorry. As Springfield has pointed out, The symbolism used in some of the cathedrals in Roam and throughout Europe are pagan in nature. This is significant in the way symbols are interpreted.

Senior Deacon, I have read the links you have put up for me. I do not wish to discuss this further because if this discussion continues in this direction is will be come about religion and not symbols. Again if I offended anyone, that was not my intent and I do apologize.

Pinwheel

 

[senior deacon]

Pinwheel It was not to start a argument or anything else. Just to show that there is a part of the world that looks at a mystical side of everything. In my opinion the K.G.C. were working partly on Mysticism. Maybe not Christian Mysticism but that in the vein of Freemasonry,Alchemy, and many other mystical arts. To decipher most of them you must have a back ground in some of the mystic arts and have a working knowledge of the works of Pike,Waite.Hall, and Mackey. Would say that there are very few that have that or even read the better part of Pike or Waite alone. They were great minds and knew how to weave what was on the inside to how it fit on the out side. It would do you good to read if not Pike then read some of the works of A.E. Waite. IMHO A.E.Waite is easier to read and understand. I spent almost two whole years on these two mens writing alone. Manly Palmer Hall was a breeze once you understood Pike and Waite. Hall's work on "The Lost Keys of Freemasonry" will answer many questions that you may have in this matter.

Not to brag but there were a few years between my first and second marriage that I dived into the esoteric side of Freemasonry. I was able to buy a few of the works that I wanted of these two writers and ended up with more esoteric works than I really needed. The one person that i would stay away from is Aleister Crowley. Both Pike and Waite were positive in there writings . Crowley was a pervert at best. Black side of everything that is good not back side but Black Side.

I think if you read some of Pike and Waite that you might have a big light bulb come on in your head. Pay attention to the illustrations in their books. I have no axe to grind with you I only hope to shed light on your quest for knowledge and the K.G.C. Treasure. I may never find my piece of it but may be, just May Be a small gem from me may lead you to success.

Senior Deacon

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Yeah...he was a pervert........but he was educated at the University of Cambridge and had some good quotes!.....



L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Pinwheel It was not to start a argument or anything else. Just to show that there is a part of the world that looks at a mystical side of everything. In my opinion the K.G.C. were working partly on Mysticism. Maybe not Christian Mysticism but that in the vein of Freemasonry,Alchemy, and many other mystical arts. To decipher most of them you must have a back ground in some of the mystic arts and have a working knowledge of the works of Pike,Waite.Hall, and Mackey. Would say that there are very few that have that or even read the better part of Pike or Waite alone. They were great minds and knew how to weave what was on the inside to how it fit on the out side. It would do you good to read if not Pike then read some of the works of A.E. Waite. IMHO A.E.Waite is easier to read and understand. I spent almost two whole years on these two mens writing alone. Manly Palmer Hall was a breeze once you understood Pike and Waite. Hall's work on "The Lost Keys of Freemasonry" will answer many questions that you may have in this matter.

Not to brag but there were a few years between my first and second marriage that I dived into the esoteric side of Freemasonry. I was able to buy a few of the works that I wanted of these two writers and ended up with more esoteric works than I really needed. The one person that i would stay away from is Aleister Crowley. Both Pike and Waite were positive in there writings . Crowley was a pervert at best. Black side of everything that is good not back side but Black Side.

I think if you read some of Pike and Waite that you might have a big light bulb come on in your head. Pay attention to the illustrations in their books. I have no axe to grind with you I only hope to shed light on your quest for knowledge and the K.G.C. Treasure. I may never find my piece of it but may be, just May Be a small gem from me may lead you to success.

Senior Deacon

Do you believe that Albert Pike was a Kabbalist or one who maintained the Kabbalah ?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Senior Deacon and Rebel. In no way do i intend to be offensive or to seem like i am trying to attack any one. I am not and if I have offended any of you guys I am sorry. As Springfield has pointed out, The symbolism used in some of the cathedrals in Roam and throughout Europe are pagan in nature. This is significant in the way symbols are interpreted.

Senior Deacon, I have read the links you have put up for me. I do not wish to discuss this further because if this discussion continues in this direction is will be come about religion and not symbols. Again if I offended anyone, that was not my intent and I do apologize.

Pinwheel

It is a big part of the deciphering to recognize the religion of the person using the symbol...I believe it reflects directly the linguistics needed to be used for an explanation of the symbols in question. Just my two cents.

P.S. In debate all is questionable. If a person is offended during the quest for the truth by debate, then they should exit the discussion...because they can't handle the truth.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Pinwheel It was not to start a argument or anything else. Just to show that there is a part of the world that looks at a mystical side of everything. In my opinion the K.G.C. were working partly on Mysticism. Maybe not Christian Mysticism but that in the vein of Freemasonry,Alchemy, and many other mystical arts. To decipher most of them you must have a back ground in some of the mystic arts and have a working knowledge of the works of Pike,Waite.Hall, and Mackey. Would say that there are very few that have that or even read the better part of Pike or Waite alone. They were great minds and knew how to weave what was on the inside to how it fit on the out side. It would do you good to read if not Pike then read some of the works of A.E. Waite. IMHO A.E.Waite is easier to read and understand. I spent almost two whole years on these two mens writing alone. Manly Palmer Hall was a breeze once you understood Pike and Waite. Hall's work on "The Lost Keys of Freemasonry" will answer many questions that you may have in this matter.

Not to brag but there were a few years between my first and second marriage that I dived into the esoteric side of Freemasonry. I was able to buy a few of the works that I wanted of these two writers and ended up with more esoteric works than I really needed. The one person that i would stay away from is Aleister Crowley. Both Pike and Waite were positive in there writings . Crowley was a pervert at best. Black side of everything that is good not back side but Black Side.

I think if you read some of Pike and Waite that you might have a big light bulb come on in your head. Pay attention to the illustrations in their books. I have no axe to grind with you I only hope to shed light on your quest for knowledge and the K.G.C. Treasure. I may never find my piece of it but may be, just May Be a small gem from me may lead you to success.

Senior Deacon

KGC DOES have "elements" of OLD Rosicrucian Order (aka Christian Mystics), connected to Albert Pike's Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of the late 1860's/1879's...

 

[Pinwheel]

Pinwheel It was not to start a argument or anything else. Just to show that there is a part of the world that looks at a mystical side of everything. In my opinion the K.G.C. were working partly on Mysticism. Maybe not Christian Mysticism but that in the vein of Freemasonry,Alchemy, and many other mystical arts. To decipher most of them you must have a back ground in some of the mystic arts and have a working knowledge of the works of Pike,Waite.Hall, and Mackey. Would say that there are very few that have that or even read the better part of Pike or Waite alone. They were great minds and knew how to weave what was on the inside to how it fit on the out side. It would do you good to read if not Pike then read some of the works of A.E. Waite. IMHO A.E.Waite is easier to read and understand. I spent almost two whole years on these two mens writing alone. Manly Palmer Hall was a breeze once you understood Pike and Waite. Hall's work on "The Lost Keys of Freemasonry" will answer many questions that you may have in this matter.

Not to brag but there were a few years between my first and second marriage that I dived into the esoteric side of Freemasonry. I was able to buy a few of the works that I wanted of these two writers and ended up with more esoteric works than I really needed. The one person that i would stay away from is Aleister Crowley. Both Pike and Waite were positive in there writings . Crowley was a pervert at best. Black side of everything that is good not back side but Black Side.

I think if you read some of Pike and Waite that you might have a big light bulb come on in your head. Pay attention to the illustrations in their books. I have no axe to grind with you I only hope to shed light on your quest for knowledge and the K.G.C. Treasure. I may never find my piece of it but may be, just May Be a small gem from me may lead you to success.

Senior Deacon

Hi S.D. I have the works of Pike, Waite, Mackey, M.P.H., some of Alister Crowley's and some of Madam Blavestigie work as well. I know I did not spell her name right. Did not want to take time to look it up. And the works of many other respected authors on freemasonry. Most of what I have of Crowley and Bladaveskie is on numbers and tarot cards.

Look Guys. I know it is hard to lay aside what one believes and just follow the evidence. When investigating , what I believe does not matter. What matters is what the code maker believed. Religion makes us blind to the truth if we let it. The code makers knew this and they have been successfully using that fact to their advantage ever since they started marking the trails. S. D. I do appreciate you trying to help me see the light. The deeper I get into this treasure hunting game I am beginning to think that there is no treasure, just evangelizing.

Pinwheel

 

[senior deacon]

The deeper I get into this treasure hunting game I am beginning to think that there is no treasure, just evangelizing. Pinwheel you are more right than you know. I am coming to the same conclusion myself. Especially with the Treasure legends!!!!!! Good work on sitting down and reading Waite and Hall.

L.C. I don't think that Pike was a Kabbalist He was a student of it and it played a part in the scheme of things. The Kabbalism is Jewish Mysticism. Pike was a trinitarian Christian mostly grew up in the Episcopal Church. The signs and symbols that we have to be concerned with are wrapped up in the the middle to late part of the 1800's. It was at this time that Fraternalism was at it's high water mark. Freemasons, Oddfellows, Woodsmen of the World, Knights of Pythias,The Grange, were but just a few. here is a list of the current ones and we haven't even got in to the college fraternities. List of general fraternities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The thing that I am finding is that there were a lot of the Fraternities that feed off or borrowed from the Freemasons. If you can understand them most of the rest of them you can figure out quickly. Pike and Mackey were the 1800's the ultimate fraternalist. There were others along the way but it is my opinion that they are the two that we should be most concerned with. Unfortunately my mind is not as sharp as them and much study has to be done to comprehend much of what they are trying to convey. So don't feel bad if you are at a dead end with some of this. If we all work together maybe once and for all we can solve this mystery. I don't think that we have to pay much attention to the Ceremonial Magic movement that was taking place in Europe at the same time. Pike was trying very hard to cement in place the Scottish Rite at this time. He was trying to make it outshine the York Rite there for making the Scottish Rite a living memorial to himself. He sure did succeed. The K.G.C. Mystery just may be part of his legacy also no matter where it went after he was done with it. (this is just talking to myself) May be part of the K.G.C. treasure was used to promote the Scottish Rite

Senior Deacon

 

[lgadbois]

J. Frank Dalton was not Jesse W. James

1. Dalton never made the claim as long as Jesse's brother, Frank James, was alive
2. DNA tests were conclusive that the person buried in Jesse's grave was directly related to his decendents
3. "While a resident of the Roper Hotel in Marble Falls, Texas, in the 1940s, J. Frank Dalton (d. 1951) claimed to be U. S. Marshall Frank Dalton, a brother of members of the outlaw Dalton Gang and a touring member of Wild Bill Hickok’s Wild West show. The real Frank Dalton was believed to have died around the turn of the 20th century. After moving to Lawton, Oklahoma, Dalton assumed the identity of outlaw Jesse James, believed to have died in 1882. He claimed that the man buried in James’ grave was Charley Bigelow, a James associate who had been living in his house. Dalton’s stories were supported by several newspapers, but disputed by the James family heirs, historians, and a Missouri circuit court ruling. In 1995, an exhumation of James’ Kearny, Missouri, grave and DNA testing of its corpse refuted Dalton’s claims. Nevertheless, Dalton remains buried under a tombstone reading “Jesse Woodson James, Sept. 5, 1847-August 15, 1951. Supposedly killed in 1882.”Sources:
McNabb, Betty. “Who was that tall, bearded stranger?” The Highlander, November 30, 1978.
Walker, Dale L., and John Jakes. “The man who would be Jesse James: J. Frank Dalton vs. DNA.” Legends and lies: Great mysteries of the American West. New York: Forge, 1997.

 

[Pinwheel]

J. Frank Dalton was not Jesse W. James

1. Dalton never made the claim as long as Jesse's brother, Frank James, was alive
2. DNA tests were conclusive that the person buried in Jesse's grave was directly related to his decendents
3. "While a resident of the Roper Hotel in Marble Falls, Texas, in the 1940s, J. Frank Dalton (d. 1951) claimed to be U. S. Marshall Frank Dalton, a brother of members of the outlaw Dalton Gang and a touring member of Wild Bill Hickok’s Wild West show. The real Frank Dalton was believed to have died around the turn of the 20th century. After moving to Lawton, Oklahoma, Dalton assumed the identity of outlaw Jesse James, believed to have died in 1882. He claimed that the man buried in James’ grave was Charley Bigelow, a James associate who had been living in his house. Dalton’s stories were supported by several newspapers, but disputed by the James family heirs, historians, and a Missouri circuit court ruling. In 1995, an exhumation of James’ Kearny, Missouri, grave and DNA testing of its corpse refuted Dalton’s claims. Nevertheless, Dalton remains buried under a tombstone reading “Jesse Woodson James, Sept. 5, 1847-August 15, 1951. Supposedly killed in 1882.”Sources:
McNabb, Betty. “Who was that tall, bearded stranger?” The Highlander, November 30, 1978.
Walker, Dale L., and John Jakes. “The man who would be Jesse James: J. Frank Dalton vs. DNA.” Legends and lies: Great mysteries of the American West. New York: Forge, 1997.

Hi lgadbois. If you have been following these threads long you probably have read that many of us believe that it makes no difference if J. Frank Dalton was the Missouri outlaw Jessie James. The name Jessie James became synonymous with the comptroller or head of the KGC. In other words If the organization were still around you or I could become Jessie James by becoming the head of the organization.

By being the Comptroller of the KGC J. Frank Dalton was Jessie James. and in the same sense the Missouri outlaw.

Pinwheel

 

[bungyboy]

I posted this earlier but I don't think it went through so I will write it again. I'm very sorry fellows, but this fellow is not JJ. When the two photos of them were put together pages ago, it was instantly verifiable that they were not the same person. As a former federal "law enforcement officer" I spent months in training at Glynco/FLETC, and much more time on the border. If I didn't know how to identify someone I would be useless at my job, so I spent a lot of time in the Immigration/Immigration Law classes. With these photos side by side, they look like the same person, same this and that and this, etc. Unfortunately or fortunately in this case they are not the same person. Strikingly and eerily the same but for one difference that never changes during one's lifetime. So, my two cents, take it for what it's worth. What do I know, I'm just a fat old rednecked Texan.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I posted this earlier but I don't think it went through so I will write it again. I'm very sorry fellows, but this fellow is not JJ. When the two photos of them were put together pages ago, it was instantly verifiable that they were not the same person. As a former federal "law enforcement officer" I spent months in training at Glynco/FLETC, and much more time on the border. If I didn't know how to identify someone I would be useless at my job, so I spent a lot of time in the Immigration/Immigration Law classes. With these photos side by side, they look like the same person, same this and that and this, etc. Unfortunately or fortunately in this case they are not the same person. Strikingly and eerily the same but for one difference that never changes during one's lifetime. So, my two cents, take it for what it's worth. What do I know, I'm just a fat old rednecked Texan.

"one difference that never changes during one's lifetime........." Don't leave us hanging dude! What is it?

L.C.

 

[bungyboy]

Primarily look at their inner ears.

Edit: I can be totally wrong, but if I had to bet something significant I would go with that. You can do all the handwriting, scars, facts, claims, eyewitness accounts, planet alignments, a magic fairie in a pool of elephant pxx$ or even wait for dna. All that considered I would lay it down due to the inner ear. Prove me wrong and I will never watch napoleon dynamite, office space, dude where's my car, falling down, what about bob, as good as it gets, any adam sandler's movies, or wayne's world EVER again, and walk through walmart with a big sharpie inflicted "L" on my forehead.

Edit x 2: I'll even confess and beg forgiveness for rubbing terpentine on the butt of my aunt's dog with a corncob, and for smearing a five gallon bucket of grease down the railroad tracks at a switch when I was 8 years old.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

In order to make that comparison i believe one would have to stretch the 114 year old mans skin tighter than Kenny Rogers's face.

It is a question that is in debate, was he or not? DNA done correctly would be the only way to tell for sure....just like the spine of Booth...why not use it for DNA to prove that the man shot in Garrett's barn was not Booth

Just my two cents, L.C.

P.S. I once stopped a train with a 30/06 spent brass filled with kitchen match heads......thought my Grandma was going to sh@t!

 

[bungyboy]

Yes, ears grow but the inner ear keeps it's shape.