My Salt water report card.

[midalake]

It started in July of 2018. Took my new Nox to Mexico and even though I did testing at home before leaving it was disappointing to find that my Black Widows would not work, nor my Sun Ray pro golds. I did do some detecting but the wave noise on my beach made it difficult to really get into the machine.
Fast forward to January, armed with the correct connector to use my black widows I starting learning the Nox. First impression was, chatty, difficult to PP, and issues with moving water and black sand. After the third time out I installed the update. WHAT A FAIL! I had a new machine alright but it was working way worse. I consulted a few people with the machine and was told that the update may not always take. I uninstalled and checked performance [seemed ok] Then put the up-date back on. What a difference! The machine seemed to perform better!

Off to the report card! Saltwater Beach, Beach 2, GB auto.

Dry Sand- [N/A] The dry sand is not worth my time where I hunt.

Wet sand grade: [A- ]: I found the machine to work the wet sand well [no water]. With light black sand I could work in 21-22 sensitivity. Very little false signals, worked recovery between 4-6, iron bias 2-3. Even though I did not make any great recoveries in this part of the beach by the end of the season I felt confident there was not much getting by me.

Wave Trough [moving water] grade: [ F] This is where I really like to hunt. To put it bluntly the Nox is a complete failure in moving salt water. It is like the moving salt water makes the machine blind to detect and see targets.
The beach is rough where I hunt. At any point water could be over waist deep, then 50’ or more of wet sand to the water. If I were to stay in the wave zone completely I would have to significantly de-tune the machine do to the moving water causing the machine to false. When the water would drain out and I would locate a target the next wave is right there. When the wave would come through, repeated sweeping where the target was produced no sound at all. When the wave pulled back, re-sweeping showed the target was present. This happened over and over for 100’s of targets. Another drawback: It was clear there was two different set-ups needed. One for wet sand, another for moving water. If I had the machine set for moving water that meant every time the wave swept out I was WAY under matched for wet sand only. Mainly I found I had to run around 17-18 sensitivity and 5-6 on recovery.

Other issues comments.

EMI grade[ F] I have over ½ mile of the beach where I need to back off the sensitivity by 1-2 regardless of other conditions or controls.

Pinpoint Mode grade [F] The worst functioning I have ever used, Especially on a beach!

All metal mode grade [A] Or as I nick named it the “truth mode” Almost every jumpy target I had would lock in somewhere, once put in all metal mode.

Recovery of targets grade [D] Well part of this grade is due to the pin-point mode, but make no mistake there are other issues, Even though I had the target out of the hole, many time the detector was still sounding off. Also it seems to be easy to bury targets or make them undetectable after missing them in the scooping process.

Thanks for listening. Please do not tell me how it works on land, in fresh water, or gold mode [I don’t hunt land] This is my honest review. Sure I have a few more things to learn, but I doubt my grades would change much
.
Over-all grade C+


Dave

 

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[pa-dirt_nc-sand]

Hi Dave! I use my Nox more in the dirt than ocean, but I probably have 50 hours of North Carolina Atlantic hunting with the Nox. Mostly dry/wet sand and up to 12” in the ocean. The beach I hunt is rough Atlantic surf 6 of 7 days a week. Just too much of a beating to really go waist deep. My experience has been really positive. I actually found that I could use just about any of the modes and get depth and smooth quiet operation. That said, it took me at least 100 hours of general use to understand the Nox and not want to chuck it out the window of my car after many frustrating early hunts. Hang in there!

 

[gunsil]

So you're waist deep without waterproof phones?? In rough water!?! Sounds fishy to me. I mean, neither Sun Ray or Black Widows are waterproof phones. How many other water detectors have you used in the salt water?? I have had no problems in 12-24" of salt water with a current running using the Nox. 17-18 sensitivity will still get you deep targets.

 

[Digger Dude]

If I didn't hunt land, I would get an Excalibur II.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Something isn't right if your saying it isn't working good in the moving water at beach. What mode are you using in the water, what sensitivity too?

As far as the EMI, are there hotels near where your hunting when you have the problems, many hotels have transmitters on them and backing sensitivity 1 or 2 notches down is not going to cause you to lose any noticeable difference in depth.

 

[midalake]

So you're waist deep without waterproof phones?? In rough water!?! Sounds fishy to me. I mean, neither Sun Ray or Black Widows are waterproof phones. How many other water detectors have you used in the salt water?? I have had no problems in 12-24" of salt water with a current running using the Nox. 17-18 sensitivity will still get you deep targets.

Yes, those headphone are not waterproof. No one can stand in the wave curl where I hunt [Pacific Ocean]. So it is a balancing act, I try to be in a position on the beach so after the wave hits I never am over waist deep. Never perfect, been put down on my knees twice and been lifted and moved several feet before being able to plant again. So far I have never dunked my phones, being 6'4 helps a lot! Detectors : Sovereign XS, XS2a, Elite, GT, Fisher CZ-21, Garrett beach hunter AT-4, Minelab Excal. I have tested several whites machines as well, but never owned one.
This issue does not happen in current per say, but in forceful wave wash that has plenty of air in it [bubbles]. My testing shows quite a difference between 17-18 and 21-22. My main issue is the complete loss of detection ability with the wave movement up and back down the beach. For those who work rough beaches it would be beneficial to find a target and wait for that wave push and check it.

Dave

 

[midalake]

Something isn't right if your saying it isn't working good in the moving water at beach. What mode are you using in the water, what sensitivity too?

As far as the EMI, are there hotels near where your hunting when you have the problems, many hotels have transmitters on them and backing sensitivity 1 or 2 notches down is not going to cause you to lose any noticeable difference in depth.

Hi

Tracking GB, Beach 2, In moving water 17-18 sen, Recovery 4-6, iron bias 2-3. VERY unimpressed with the EMI interference. Dave

 

[vferrari]

Dave - read carefully through that "So I'm not crazy" thread. As I reread your report card post, I think you may actually have an intermittent hardware issue with the coil or control head. Just a thought.

 

[saanich2018]

Dave - read carefully through that "So I'm not crazy" thread. As I reread your report card post, I think you may actually have an intermittent hardware issue with the coil or control head. Just a thought.

I was wondering the same thing. Some of the issues described sound like the problems I was having.

 

[midalake]

Dave - read carefully through that "So I'm not crazy" thread. As I reread your report card post, I think you may actually have an intermittent hardware issue with the coil or control head. Just a thought.

No Sir. I have no doubts that the detector is preforming as it should be. As stated in my report card the first up-date did not take but the machine, I thought, worked better once the up-date took from being delivered original. The main issues I have are with forceful moving salt water. If I can work the wet sand, with moderate black sand at 21-22.....there is nothing wrong with the machine.


Dave

 

[vferrari]

Have you tried rolling the software back to see if the original software performs better in moving salt water?

 

[midalake]

Have you tried rolling the software back to see if the original software performs better in moving salt water?

The Nox did that with the original program. I think there was a clear gain in overall machine stability with the update. I do not see a reason to go back?

Dave

 

[Dave N Japan]

I am just happy I live on an island with a outer reef and almost no waves at all....Like a lake most of the time and clear water ����

 

[saanich2018]

I have read this thread several times and keep going back to my own experience.

I was having the same issues with my unit, especially in salt water. It turns out I did have a bad coil which was shorting out in the salt water as salt water is very conductive.

Minelab has replaced my coil and head and I cannot wait to try it out later this summer.

 

[mpro1]

I've got well over 100 hours with the Nox800 and 11" coil and about 10 hours with the 6" (just received mine). Overall I like the Nox it is a great detector. I must say I do agree with assessment here. I hunt all different conditions. But the Nox has a lot of trouble with the Rocky Clay saltwater beaches I hunt. No depth in water. Ok out in the wet. Also the EMI horrible for the Nox. A couple of colonial beaches that I have had great success at with other detectors have become unhuntable due to EMI. I've tried everything. EMI is a problem in the suburban parks too.

 

[scarfaceses26]

I've got well over 100 hours with the Nox800 and 11" coil and about 10 hours with the 6" (just received mine). Overall I like the Nox it is a great detector. I must say I do agree with assessment here. I hunt all different conditions. But the Nox has a lot of trouble with the Rocky Clay saltwater beaches I hunt. No depth in water. Ok out in the wet. Also the EMI horrible for the Nox. A couple of colonial beaches that I have had great success at with other detectors have become unhuntable due to EMI. I've tried everything. EMI is a problem in the suburban parks too.

Sorry what does it means EMI

 

[saanich2018]

Electromagnetic interference (EMI), also called radio-frequency interference (RFI) when in the radio frequency spectrum, is a disturbance generated by an external source that affects an electrical circuit by electromagnetic induction, electrostatic coupling, or conduction.

In our case it is when we have minerals in the ground which cause interference, such as black sand

 

[scarfaceses26]

Electromagnetic interference (EMI), also called radio-frequency interference (RFI) when in the radio frequency spectrum, is a disturbance generated by an external source that affects an electrical circuit by electromagnetic induction, electrostatic coupling, or conduction.

In our case it is when we have minerals in the ground which cause interference, such as black sand

Thanks saanich

 

[vferrari]

Electromagnetic interference (EMI), also called radio-frequency interference (RFI) when in the radio frequency spectrum, is a disturbance generated by an external source that affects an electrical circuit by electromagnetic induction, electrostatic coupling, or conduction.

In our case it is when we have minerals in the ground which cause interference, such as black sand

Good description of EMI, but mineralization does not cause RF EMI as it is just a passive constituent of whatever type of ground you are swinging the coil over. Passive meaning that it is not a transmitter of radio frequency EMI.

EMI and ground noise (caused by mineralization/black sand) are two entirely different things and require two different mitigations.

EMI is caused by external ACTIVE sources of electromagnetic energy transmission in the radio frequency spectrum such as power lines, wi fi transmitters, flourescent lights, cell towers, cell phones, walkie talkies, transformers, electric fences, etc. The noise cancel feature on Equinox and other detectors is designed to counter this issue by selecting a quiet channel on which the detector can "hear" the target signal with minimum interference. Sometimes the EMI is severe and/or broad spectrum enough (e.g., wireless dog fences) that noise cancel is not sufficient, such that you have to lower detector sensitivity to reduce chatter, but that also limits target depth. Since multifrequency detectors are tuned to listen over a broad range of frequencies, they tend to be more susceptible to EMI in general. For Equinox, another option is to switch it to single frequency. You lose the multifrequency benefits, but at least you may find a frequency you can detect at without turning sensitivity down too low. The lower frequencies (5 to 10 khz) tend to be more susceptible to EMI.

Ground noise feedback/chatter manifested by random, constant iron tones and negative VDI numbers is caused by the detector responding to mineralization/black sand which is comprised of ferrous oxide (essentially rust) in the ground. Since these particles are ferromagnetic, they readily couple to the receive coil and throw off the induction balance between the transmit and recieve coils (the principle behind which VLF IB defectors such as Equinox use to detect and discriminate different targets). This effect is cancelled out by properly ground balancing the detector at the start of your detecting session or using tracking ground balance if the ground effects are constantly changing due to changes in mineralization. Another thing that can increase ground chatter is sweep speed and recovery speed. Slower sweep speeds and slower recovery speeds tend to increase ground noise, so lowering recovery speed too far (in an attempt to "increase" depth performance) can increase ground noise effects and actuslly lower target detection ability.

On salt beaches or alkalai soils, the conductivity effects of salt also play a similar but different role in causing ground chatter due to upsetting the ground effect cancellation and multi frequency machines actually have an advantage over single frequency machines in this regard, because they can process, recognize, and cancel the instabilities by salt effects at different frequencies. This is the reason multifrequency can run more stable than single frequency machines on wet salt sand or in salt water.

If you have black sand AND salt, Equinox tries to mitigate that situation in Beach 2 mode by automatically dialing back transmit power (not sensitivity) when it senses black sand mineralization. Using tracking GB in this situation can also help in the surf when wave action is churning up the sand and causing constant changes in salt and mineralization levels.

Bottom Line:

EMI - external ElectroMagnetic Interference due to radio transmitter sources. Mitigate by doing a noise cancel, lower sensitivity, or try single frequency, if necessary.

Ground noise - Ground balance (and use tracking if ground mineralization requires constant rebalancing), keep recovery speed near the defaults, and use the multifrequency beach modes on salt sand (Beach 1 for wet sand, Beach 2 for surf and with black sand).

HTH

 

[cudamark]

I'd say something was wrong with your detector. If it were an inherent problem with the Equinox, all of us would be have "your" problem. I have well over 600 hours on mine now and don't have the issues you seem to have.