My Turn

[Fred250]

I have been waiting a couple years to make this post for the few members that are still frequenting this forum from that time, a discussion for a different post, because I was banned for insulting members and moderators or something to that affect. My behavior was inappropriate and was tied to my drinking too much on a New Year’s Eve and for that I apologize. A driving force of that behavior was being called things such as “rock boy” when posting my admittedly ambiguous artifacts.
I am lucky enough to live down the street from the guy who wrote the book on North American Paleo.

He was kind enough to invite me over to his house and take a look at my collection, although I quickly realized he was taking an opportunity to sell me books, a sad truth of life for an independent archaeologist I guess but again for another day. His opinion differed from the vast majority on here on my finds. He said things like “too bad there wasn’t a museum to donate these too” likely because of my poor storage of artifacts. Also I remember “I’d keep looking where you found that one” and “ you are very observant” and “ you should take a walk around Bull’s Brook,” a major paleo site close to us which many here have likely heard of. Granted I was in his living room so he could have been just humoring me but I don’t think so and I know there are people that read this forum that could if they chose verify my story.
Not to say the Doc and I are friends, I emailed him twice after that and he never responded. He added me to his mailing list for the ASAA, a local amateur archaeology group, and emboldened by this when they announced an artifact show a couple months later I requested a table space. I figured people would like to see some everyday paleo artifacts not in cases that they could hold in their hands. Boy was I wrong. Maybe three people even dared to make eye contact with me , let alone look at my stuff. It was really rather embarrassing, no one was rude like on here but their opinion of my stuff was clear. I guess the point to all this is as much as I wanted to come on here and say I told you so I was right and you were wrong, it’s not as cut and dry as that. I just wish people would stop stating their opinion as fact as some artifacts are nearly impossible to verify in pics and even in hand sometimes. I’ll step off the soap box now, thanks for reading those that did.

 

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[Relicgrubber]

Dr. Gramly is well known around here. I have never met him but know a few who have and they held him and his knowledge in high regard.

 

[ToddsPoint]

I’ve known Gramly for quite some time. I’ve worked on several of his digs in IL, KY and TN. I even had a Cumberland point I made featured on the cover of one of his books. He’s hell bent on solving the mysteries of the earliest paleo Indians. He’s very different than 99% of archaeologists. He gets access to private property that no other arkies can get. Why? Because he lets property owners retain artifacts found on their property. Even though most all arkies say they just want information, they also demand possession of artifacts. No one in their right mind would let an arkie dig a $10,000 Clovis point off their land and walk away with it, so they never get permission. Gramly will get his information, make resin casts of artifacts and return them to the owner. By operating this way he has dug dozens of important sites no others have had access to.

 

[Fred250]

He gives talks at the ASAA meetings, is working on a pre-Clovis site in Kentucky. They found an ivory diadem (headband) that dated to 30,000 years ago. I guess there is a site in Siberia famous for these which also date to 30,000. He is theorizing the diadem travelled from that site to where he found it in Ky. That seems harder to believe than someone made one in Ky 30,000 years ago to me, amazing either way though. The ivory dates to 30,000, could have been made well after that I suppose but for that kind of object that needs to be a little flexible you would think fresher ivory would be needed. An amazing discovery any way you look at it.

 

[Older The Better]

is his book worth a read?

 

[CreekSide]

Hey Fred I was on this site when you used to come in and argue with everybody. It’s okay I was in the same situation when I first started collecting. If you don’t have anyone telling you that you’re treasure you found isn’t treasure how are you pose to learn. I found a collector at a artifact show that had a big collection. He showed me how to walk creeks and actually find artifacts. Field walking is a no brainer after learning how to walk creeks. I still know the guy by name and see him once in a while but he doesn’t ask me to go with him anymore. Probably cause we both can walk a spot really quick. Post your stuff if you have any

 

[Garscale]

It would e cool if you could post an artifact and say Dr Gramly Said this is a......whatever he said you had

 

[Fred250]

Hey Fred I was on this site when you used to come in and argue with everybody. It’s okay I was in the same situation when I first started collecting. If you don’t have anyone telling you that you’re treasure you found isn’t treasure how are you pose to learn. I found a collector at an artifact show that had a big collection. He showed me how to walk creeks and actually find artifacts. Field walking is a no brainer after learning how to walk creeks. I still know the guy by name and see him once in a while but he doesn’t ask me to go with him anymore. Probably cause we both can walk a spot really quick. Post your stuff if you have any

I’m not going to be sucked back into the same old argument, not sure why you couldn’t just pretend to ignore this post like the others.. If you read the above post well I explained I took my stuff to an expert on that type of artifact and he verified them in hand. I also went so far as to mail a box of stuff to a former member who was clearly one of the most knowledgeable on here and whose presence is sorely missed who also verified them in hand. I received the validation I was seeking and am no longer going to argue about it. You are welcome to your opinion, though it is sometimes, as I’s everyone’s, wrong. The point of my post was to remind some people of that so they might express said opinions in a gentler tone, if not out of respect than maybe to not end up with egg on their face. I have no illusion as to my stuff being a treasure, it is everyday stuff Dr Gramly called junk or bag dumps. I prefer to think of it as the stuff they didn’t take with them but I know it isn’t valuable. Still are artifacts though.

 

[Fred250]

It would e cool if you could post an artifact and say Dr Gramly Said this is a......whatever he said you had

I’m creative but even I couldn’t make that story up, believe what you will. I do have one piece he said “that’s a good piece there” and I really have no clue why. I will post that one maybe someone has an idea, kind of bothered me since. I was kind of nervous and just babbling and didn’t even ask why it was good.

 

[dirstscratcher]

You should have bought some of his books. He has ID'd paleo tools and artifacts that other pro archies have overlooked. His books are enlightening.

 

[CreekSide]

I’m not going to be sucked back into the same old argument, not sure why you couldn’t just pretend to ignore this post like the others.. If you read the above post well I explained I took my stuff to an expert on that type of artifact and he verified them in hand. I also went so far as to mail a box of stuff to a former member who was clearly one of the most knowledgeable on here and whose presence is sorely missed who also verified them in hand. I received the validation I was seeking and am no longer going to argue about it. You are welcome to your opinion, though it is sometimes, as I’s everyone’s, wrong. The point of my post was to remind some people of that so they might express said opinions in a gentler tone, if not out of respect than maybe to not end up with egg on their face. I have no illusion as to my stuff being a treasure, it is everyday stuff Dr Gramly called junk or bag dumps. I prefer to think of it as the stuff they didn’t take with them but I know it isn’t valuable. Still are artifacts though.

Never mind, carry on!!

 

[Fred250]

You should have bought some of his books. He has ID'd paleo tools and artifacts that other pro archies have overlooked. His books are enlightening.

I did buy a couple later on. Older that book is selling for $140 oniline, too rich for me at this time. I believe I he said it is out of print but he might have said he has unbound copies for sale through the ASAA website. I read all his stuff on the Pleistocene Coalition and his articles on Jstor and whatnot on the web.

 

[Older The Better]

Always looking for a good book to read or a good reference on anything history of North America, many have been great but some have been total duds. I’ll keep it on my radar, I’d still like to get my hands on that book projectile points on the high plains by Jeb Taylor, that one is too rich for me I think the cheapest I saw was 600$

 

[CreekSide]

Always looking for a good book to read or a good reference on anything history of North America, many have been great but some have been total duds. I’ll keep it on my radar, I’d still like to get my hands on that book projectile points on the high plains by Jeb Taylor, that one is too rich for me I think the cheapest I saw was 600$

I sold a lot of books the last show. But I keep all my good ones so far

 

[CreekSide]

I’m not going to be sucked back into the same old argument, not sure why you couldn’t just pretend to ignore this post like the others.. If you read the above post well I explained I took my stuff to an expert on that type of artifact and he verified them in hand. I also went so far as to mail a box of stuff to a former member who was clearly one of the most knowledgeable on here and whose presence is sorely missed who also verified them in hand. I received the validation I was seeking and am no longer going to argue about it. You are welcome to your opinion, though it is sometimes, as I’s everyone’s, wrong. The point of my post was to remind some people of that so they might express said opinions in a gentler tone, if not out of respect than maybe to not end up with egg on their face. I have no illusion as to my stuff being a treasure, it is everyday stuff Dr Gramly called junk or bag dumps. I prefer to think of it as the stuff they didn’t take with them but I know it isn’t valuable. Still are artifacts though.

I have to ask a question and it might not of been maybe it was a different person idk. But did you ever display your finds at a artifact show? I ask cause one show I attended a few years back. They sat me next to a guy who piled a bunch of rocks on his table and I asked him what’s that? He responded every one of these rocks have mammoth carvings on them. I said really let’s see. He showed me (I didn’t see anything but rocks). My next sentence after that to him was if I have anyone come to my table don’t talk to them cause I’m afraid you will scare them away. I mean it could of been someone else all together. So I have to ask are you seeing mammoths?

 

[Fred250]

I have to ask a question and it might not of been maybe it was a different person idk. But did you ever display your finds at an artifact show? I ask cause one show I attended a few years back. They sat me next to a guy who piled a bunch of rocks on his table and I asked him what’s that? He responded every one of these rocks have mammoth carvings on them. I said really let’s see. He showed me (I didn’t see anything but rocks). My next sentence after that to him was if I have anyone come to my table don’t talk to them cause I’m afraid you will scare them away. I mean it could have been someone else all together. So I have to ask are you seeing mammoths?

There have been a few articles published lately on the role pareidoila

I have to ask a question and it might not of been maybe it was a different person idk. But did you ever display your finds at a artifact show? I ask cause one show I attended a few years back. They sat me next to a guy who piled a bunch of rocks on his table and I asked him what’s that? He responded every one of these rocks have mammoth carvings on them. I said really let’s see. He showed me (I didn’t see anything but rocks). My next sentence after that to him was if I have anyone come to my table don’t talk to them cause I’m afraid you will scare them away. I mean it could of been someone else all together. So I have to ask are you seeing mammoths?

There have been a few articles out lately on the role pareidoila, however it’s spelled, played in ancient cave art. Only natural to extrapolate that to stones as well. Even the good Doc sees mammoths in stuff if you read up on his recent work.He and Dr. James Harrod have put out some articles with mostly Clovis bone tools and there possible animistic representations . But I knew better than to bring that stuff to the 1 and only show I will ever display at. Your not going to get under my skin.