Oh Florida, she is a fickle mistress.....

[joshuajbelanger]

Spent a whole day, and tank of gas chasing a ghost...
Started out, seeking a google earth anomaly, of course, it's protected land....that's just hear say though, and I am researching that further. But, being the genius that I am, there was a back up plan...a fail safe, so to speak.

Headed to Brandon's silver park...got fifteen minutes into the hunt, and just as I was getting a good; loud signal, Little miss too lazy to walk, pulls up on her fancy cart, and tells me I cannot be there. Well, Jonathon get's all pissy and walks to the truck, whilst I insist she show me the rules...10 painful minutes later, all she can tell me is, "Well, you can't take anything out of the park." So I proceed to pour my bag of dug up trash onto her golf cart, thank her for her time, and leave....not before rangers insure that Jonathon has not vandalized the bathroom near the truck...

C'mon...really? What the hell is wrong with this state? These people...where is the southern hospitality? I miss Louisiana...

-J

 

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[Jon Phillips]

The problem is...there aren't that many southerners left here anymore, and the ones that are have been "yankeefied"!

Plus...you know how "power" corrupts!

As far as finding out who owns the property you are looking at, just go to the tax appraisers website for the county it is in, then do a property search using the GIS map (with the satellite view layered in to help find it faster), then click on the parcel with the parcel I.D. icon chosen for the cursor, and it will tell you who owns it.....If it's the State or Federal Government...forget it! County or City, and you have a very slight chance of getting permission, but way less than if it's private.

 

[joshuajbelanger]

Hmpf...interesting, indeed...everyday I learn, thank you. This is good information to have.

-J

 

[godisnum1]

It's a county owned park. The park itself has only been open for a month or two. And as far as that lady, I'm not sure what to say. I hunted for a couple hours yesterday in the remnants of the orange grove on the side of the house and didn't see anyone because I was behind the trees. Maybe that's why nothing was said to me. Anyway, I e-mailed the park people today to request the rules & regulation for the park, then I e-mailed all the different county commissioners to find out the laws on detecting county parks... and finally, I sent a message to the County Government Information Desk to also see what they say the rules & regulations are for the park system in St Pete.
I honestly don't believe there are ANY rules against metal detecting.
I'm just hoping that if I take the right route and I'm respectful about things, that maybe I'll get some positive feedback from someone... giving me (us) a golden ticket to detect whatever park we want.
I only want to detect that park so bad because of the history of it and that it JUST opened, so there's not a ton of modern trash yet.

Bran <><

 

[joshuajbelanger]

You know, it's funny, because I think I was hunting the same spot you were....lot of fruit bearing trees, near the fence with the farm houses behind it?

It doesn't matter though...Jonathon and I were hunting separate areas, then he called me, and said a woman on a cart watched him for several moments then made a phone call and drove off...so I'm thinking, it's someone higher up, that made the decision to kick us out. Regardless of whether we are granted permission or not, my dignity has been insulted, and I probably won't be returning to the area. Anyway, the woman claimed there were many electrical and irrigation lines running through the field...however funny that may seem, I sure wouldn't want to destroy any lines, with my 1" X 1" hole. ha....

Do keep me updated though..

J

 

[godisnum1]

Well, I've managed to track down the park rules & regulations for Pinellas County parks under the Municipal Code website.

It states this in Sec. 90-5. Preservation of property (e), "No person shall make any search, excavation by tool, equipment, blasting, or other means or agency. Metal detectors are allowed with permission of the county administrator."

SO I decided to contact the County Administrator with this message,

To: Robert S. LaSala, County Administrator

Dear Mr LaSala,

I have sent a previous e-mail through the Pinellas County website, inquiring about the regulations regarding metal detecting in Pinellas County parks.

I have since been able to locate the Rules & Regulations on the Municipal Code website, provided to be by Sally with the Park Management system.

Under the Municipal Code website, specifically Sec. 90-5 (Preservation of property), Sub-Sec. (e), it states, "No person shall make any search, excavation by tool, equipment, blasting, or other means or agency. Metal detectors are allowed with permission of the county administrator."

According to Sec. 90-5 (Preservation of property), Sub-Sec. (e), I would like to formally request your written and oral permission to metal detect in any/all Pinellas County parks. I would be happy to speak with you over the phone or in person in regards to my hobby and the Code of Ethics that I hold to as a detectorist.

I will look forward to your response.

And this was the response I just received from Paul Cozzie, the Culture, Education and Leisure Director.

Dear Brandon:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding metal detecting in Pinellas County Parks. County Administrator Robert La Sala has asked me to respond to your request on his behalf.

Park policy allows for use of metal detectors under specific conditions:

1) Use of metal detectors is allowed, with permission, on Pinellas County beaches between the toe of the dune and the high water mark. Any recovered articles, artifacts, etc. remain property of the park and shall be turned over to park staff.

2) Permission for use of metal detectors in all other Pinellas County parks is prohibited except for purposes of retrieving specific lost articles. Requests may be made in writing to this office, which will be forwarded to the County Administrator with staff’s recommendation for approval or denial.

Please contact me if you have any additional questions or need further information.

Sincerely,

Paul Cozzie
Culture, Education and Leisure Director
Pinellas County
727.582.2502

He didn't state where those rules came from, and they seem to differ from what I've read in the Municipal Codes... so I don't know.

Bran <><

 

[joshuajbelanger]

It's a damn shame...soon the hobby will be outlawed all together. I hate being told to "Go to the Beach"....errrrrr

-J

 

[ivan salis]

normally under florida law *---high water mark to dune foot (also known as "the beach")--is "public property" open to metal detecting with items found upon it belonging to the finder. --- I would ask for a " further review" of the "rule #1" made by them about the beach area as far as it being "legal"-- ie you can hunt the beach at the park but we (the park / county) get all the "treasure" you find --thats so BS

 

[godisnum1]

It's a damn shame...soon the hobby will be outlawed all together. I hate being told to "Go to the Beach"....errrrrr

-J

Me too... I don't even really like detecting the beach that much. I like relics.
Looks like I'm going to need to do more research and get permission from land owners of historical properties instead.

Bran <><

 

[godisnum1]

normally under florida law *---high water mark to dune foot (also known as "the beach")--is "public property" open to metal detecting with items found upon it belonging to the finder. --- I would ask for a " further review" of the "rule #1" made by them about the beach area as far as it being "legal"-- ie you can hunt the beach at the park but we (the park / county) get all the "treasure" you find --thats so BS

Yeah, I know. I haven't responded back to that guy yet. I know whatever I find on public beaches, I can keep. As far as I'm aware, whatever I find on any beaches here in our area I can keep, including Fort deSoto, which is a county park. Obviously there are rules against keeping artifacts or items that are considered artifacts based on the items age. That's a whole other topic though....

Bran <><

 

[seadoodiver]

Good information to know. I learn something new everyday I read these posts. Southern hospitality is dead and we all know that power and ego are in control now. Does anyone know if "they" can confiscate your equipment?
Jeff
Cape Coral FL

 

[ivan salis]

fort De Soto -- well there you might be entering a "dangerous" spot -- clearly its a "known" historical area /spot --that very well might be clearly "off limits" -- so be very very sure of your location and the rules there-- if you get anything over 50 years old there (old historical artifacts)-- you will be required to turn it in most likely by florida law.

if you are caught hunting illegally * or in areas that metal detecting is "outlawed" in--you are commiting a "crime" -- in that you plan to find and take things that are not "yours" while "tresspassing"--the tools you use for commiting "the crime" are "evidence" --and can be taken into "custody" -- just like a burglars tools used to break in a home are taken as "evidence" to be used in court as "proof" of what he was "up to" -- often these things are not returned -- ( give a "burglar" back the tools he needs to break into homes with?-- uh no)

 

[mts]

fort De Soto -- well there you might be entering a "dangerous" spot -- clearly its a "known" historical area /spot --that very well might be clearly "off limits" -- so be very very sure of your location and the rules there-- if you get anything over 50 years old there (old historical artifacts)-- you will be required to turn it in most likely by florida law.

if you are caught hunting illegally * or in areas that metal detecting is "outlawed" in--you are commiting a "crime" -- in that you plan to find and take things that are not "yours" while "tresspassing"--the tools you use for commiting "the crime" are "evidence" --and can be taken into "custody" -- just like a burglars tools used to break in a home are taken as "evidence" to be used in court as "proof" of what he was "up to" -- often these things are not returned -- ( give a "burglar" back the tools he needs to break into homes with?-- uh no)

In Fort De Soto you can only hunt the beaches and nowhere else in the park. You also need to go to the ranger's station and get a "permit". It is free and just gives them a chance to remind you that you can only detect on the beaches. A few years back they had someone find a unexploded cannon ball off in the grassy area while excavating. They don't let you detect elsewhere in the park for fear of you finding one and having it go off. The ranger I spoke to was very nice about it all and fixed me up with the required permit. I didn't find anything of value but it is still a nice park to visit.

 

[godisnum1]

I know the rules of Fort deSoto, as I have the lifetime permit and have detected there many times before...
It's VERY clear that you cannot and should not go off of the beach, because the whole area used to be a bombing range.
So outside of cannon balls, you're likely to find other munitions in the park area.

But still, the beach area there should be the same laws as on any other beach... you keep what you find, unless of course it is an artifact, which you should (by law) turn over to the park system.

Bran <><

 

[Jon Phillips]

The county guy is confusing his laws....or Pinellas county has adopted all of the stricter state and federal laws. The "high water line to the tow of the dunes" as well as the "purpose of retrieving a specific item with a permit" is just for state parks. The "turn over all items" stems from the state's "all man made items over 50 years old recovered from navigable waterways must be turned in" rule.

He might have been just brushing you off.....I would write back and clarify if the county was adopting the state rules, or if he was quoting from the state regulation.

 

[godisnum1]

Well I've always known the rules on our beaches to be from the tide line to the foot of the dunes.
In regards to that, I've NEVER heard differently... which is fine.
But I know darn well I don't have to turn over all items (that aren't artifacts).

Bran <><

 

[godisnum1]

So before contacting Mr. LaSala, I tried to send out a message to a few different people trying to see if I could get specific information/permission for detecting... before knowing that Mr. LaSala (County Administrator) was the ONLY one that could give the "ok" to detect in our parks. Here's my not-so-well thought out message,

To Whom It May Concern,

I'm contacting you to inquire what the policies are for metal detecting in Pinellas County parks. It is a hobby of mine that I have had for years now, which I've had a chance to do in many different states and teach others how to enjoy this hobby, as well as adhering to the metal detecting Code of Ethics. I diligently make sure to never leave any visible areas where I have carefully removed an inch or two of soil, approximately 3" x 3" and always restore the area back to how it previously appeared. I also make a point to take any metal trash that I find above ground or below ground (i.e. pull-tabs, bottle caps, nails, pieces of aluminum cans, etc.) that might cause anyone harm and carefully dispose of it at my residence. Hopefully there are some type of guidelines that you have which I can read over and abide by while I enjoy my hobby. I want to be sure to take whatever steps I can to know
that I'm following any and all rules in reference to this.

So AFTER already contacting Mr. LaSala and receiving a response from Mr. Cozzie... my message was delayed and received to Mr. LaSala's office again. This message, obviously different than my last. Mr. Cozzie again replied with the same e-mail as before... but this time, he sent it not only to me, but a TON of other park people (which kind of bothered me, like he was trying to prove a point) And keep in mind, I hadn't gotten a chance to reply to his first message yet... because I was just going to not respond and instead schedule a personal meeting with Mr. LaSala himself.

SO, I finally felt I had no choice but to respond to him. But I AM still planning on scheduling a meeting with Mr. LaSala before or after my trip up to Kansas for the CTH3 next week! Here's my response to Mr. Cozzie... let me know if I was respectful enough.

Dear Paul,

I apologize for the double e-mails, as I sent that other e-mail before attempting to contact Mr. LaSala and I inadvertently put my screen name that I use on the metal detecting forums out of habit, instead of my actual name. Again, I apologize for that.

In regards to what you stated, I do have some questions.

The first condition you indicated about detecting on beach areas, I don't believe any laws state this particular condition in full.
I do know that you can only detect from the high tide line to the toe of the dunes, but that's about as specific as the law appears (that I'm aware of)
Even at Fort deSoto, for instance, the rules appear to be the same as any other beach. I have the metal detecting permit for that park as well.
However, there has never been any laws that I'm familiar with that state that you can only detect on the beach "with permission", nor any laws stating that "any recovered articles" remain property of the park (i.e. county) and should be turned over to any staff or workers. I understand the difference between finding something modern, versus finding something that would be considered an artifact, as I worked with the Central Gulf Coast Archaeological Society for 5 years. This seems like you may be sourcing state or federal laws? Unless of course the county has adopted those similar laws; which to the best of my knowledge, I'm not aware of that being the case.

And as for only being able to detect in parks with the purpose of retrieving lost items with permission... again, that appears to be state rules & regulations.

According to the Municipal Code website, it just says that I need permission from the County Administrator to metal detect. It doesn't seem to say anything about what you have said in your e-mails to me.

So for the sake of my understanding, would you please be kind enough to send a copy of the documentation to me for the policies that you were citing?

This would greatly help me understand the park laws concerning my hobby.

Thank you,

Brandon

 

[YankeeDownSouthAdv.]

It's a damn shame...soon the hobby will be outlawed all together. I hate being told to "Go to the Beach"....errrrrr

-J

Me too... I don't even really like detecting the beach that much. I like relics.
Looks like I'm going to need to do more research and get permission from land owners of historical properties instead.

Bran <><

we are busy up our way working on a cpl old locations will let you know bran and i got ya on my facebook, will let you know...gregg

 

[godisnum1]

we are busy up our way working on a cpl old locations will let you know bran and i got ya on my facebook, will let you know...gregg

Sounds sweet... I'll keep my eyes & ears open.

Bran <><