Old Printing Plate?

WHADIFIND · Dec 29, 2012

UPDATE: NEW PICS

Dug this rather large piece from about 12 inches down. Seemed out of place for the field, but who knows what might have been used to fill in across the years. :dontknow:

The pics show it's measurements. It's non-magnetic, weighs about a half pound, appears to be a tile back with a copper/tin/bronze plated front.

This last one, I dampened the surface a bit to show the figures better.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

HH!

Breezie · Jan 3, 2013

Any update? Breezie

WHADIFIND · Jan 4, 2013

Welp, yeah, actually, some of the cleaning has born a bit of small fruit. Trouble is, my skills of capturing them in pics leaves a LOT to be desired!

If I wet the piece down and capture as it's drying I can see several new details. But, my eyes aren't as good as they might be. I'm just gonna post them up and let everyone else see if they can make out anything. Good luck!

Notice the bright spot to the lower left? Ketchup was evidently a bit strong.

Hope something in there helps.

Thanks!

Happy New Year!
HH!

Breezie · Jan 4, 2013

Those pics are great! The cleaning turned out really well. I can see the 3 cows(or bulls) are facing the 3 men. The men have on train conductor type hats and appear to have on uniforms because I can see a bow tie and coat lapel on the man on the right. Now you have to figure out the correlation between the two! The first thing that comes to mind is a 'cow' catcher on a train. Of course there are other people who wear hats like that; eg. BellHops and foreign military.

Breezie

WHADIFIND · Jan 4, 2013

Breezie said:
Those pics are great! The cleaning turned out really well. I can see the 3 cows(or bulls) are facing the 3 men. The men have on train conductor type hats and appear to have on uniforms because I can see a bow tie and coat lapel on the man on the right. Now you have to figure out the correlation between the two! The first thing that comes to mind is a 'cow' catcher on a train. Of course there are other people who wear hats like that; eg. BellHops and foreign military. Breezie

Your bellhop analogy is what I was looking for last night. I just couldn't put a name with the style. But, ya know, they also look a bit like the hat that "Johnny Yuma" used to wear.

In any case, I'm at a loss. I just can't figure the tie and I cannot find even a close match to the overall pattern. :dontknow:

Guess I'll just never know.

Thanks for your help!

HH!

Breezie · Jan 4, 2013

Johnny Yuma's hat was a Civil War Confederate 'kepi' hat. Well, that opens up another can of worms! :laughing7:

Now find a tie between the Civil War and cows/bulls.

Breezie

Breezie · Jan 4, 2013

Johnny Yuma's hat was a Civil War Confederate 'kepi' hat. Well, that opens up another can of worms! :laughing7:

Now find a tie between the Civil War and cows/bulls.

Breezie

WHADIFIND · Jan 4, 2013

Breezie said:
Johnny Yuma's hat was a Civil War Confederate 'kepi' hat. Well, that opens up another can of worms! Now find a tie between the Civil War and cows/bulls. Breezie

Oh heck! That's easy! STEAK!!!

LOL

HH!

Minrelica · Jan 4, 2013

My first post in this thread but I've been watching it all along... I was a printer for 12 years and was very passionate about every aspect of it... I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to start out from scratch with setting letters from a California job case, using platen presses and also using printing blocks.. I do believe that this is what you have here. I took a couple of the photos and sharpened them a bit and flipped them horizontally which is how you would see the image if printed. There's probably a great chance that there's a lot of detail there that we aren't seeing from the photos. It wouldn't hurt a thing if you decided to roll some ink onto the block [only need light layer] and make a couple of pressings with it... Heck, there might even be some letters or words that show up underneath... Cool find.

WHADIFIND · Jan 4, 2013

WIT said:
My first post in this thread but I've been watching it all along... I was a printer for 12 years and was very passionate about every aspect of it... I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to start out from scratch with setting letters from a California job case, using platen presses and also using printing blocks.. I do believe that this is what you have here. I took a couple of the photos and sharpened them a bit and flipped them horizontally which is how you would see the image if printed. There's probably a great chance that there's a lot of detail there that we aren't seeing from the photos. It wouldn't hurt a thing if you decided to roll some ink onto the block [only need light layer] and make a couple of pressings with it... Heck, there might even be some letters or words that show up underneath... Cool find.

That is so neat, WIT! I have always admired what could be done with printings/etchings/etc. But, I am absolutely clueless when it comes to actually doing it.

Maybe you could tell me what might be a good way to clean a plate like this. I'm afraid I'll lose detail if I do much more.

Here's a couple more pictures of the back of this piece. Maybe you can tell me what it might be made of, such as typical plates? The thing is fairly heavy. Maybe some lead? The plate appears to be brass/copper/tin, something.

Any thoughts?

And, thanks for your help!

Tnmountains · Jan 4, 2013

Here is one still on the block. I have a box of them somewhere. I like the idea of rolling some ink on it and printing it.

WHADIFIND · Jan 4, 2013

Tnmountains said:
Here is one still on the block. I have a box of them somewhere. I like the idea of rolling some ink on it and printing it.

That's cool too! TN! I agree, I like the idea of trying to print. I'd just like to get the plate as clean as I can get it before messing with inks. (I can be VERY messy when it comes to ink! LOL )

What is your plate made from?

Thanks for your help!

Minrelica · Jan 4, 2013

WHADIFIND said:
That is so neat, WIT! I have always admired what could be done with printings/etchings/etc. But, I am absolutely clueless when it comes to actually doing it.

Maybe you could tell me what might be a good way to clean a plate like this. I'm afraid I'll lose detail if I do much more.

Here's a couple more pictures of the back of this piece. Maybe you can tell me what it might be made of, such as typical plates? The thing is fairly heavy. Maybe some lead? The plate appears to be brass/copper/tin, something.

Any thoughts?

And, thanks for your help!

View attachment 721264 View attachment 721265

My first guess is that it would be copper... Perhaps you could take a sharp knife or razor and make a tiny cut in the very bottom edge to see if you expose any copper... Again, "tiny" is all you would need..

Making a print wouldn't be too complicated... Get a small roller and an ink pad, roll ink over the surface [just enough to cover the image] then press it onto some white paper... ink it up once and press it maybe 2 or 3 times... each print will be lighter but the second one may reveal more than the first.

Unfortunately, I don't want to give advice on the best way to clean the plate without knowing what it's made of... I don't want to give any "bad" advice and disappoint you with what the results may be due to the age. However if the plate is indeed copper, I don't think you'll hurt it with any mild solutions. You may find some answers here Cleaning Old Copper Engravings - Engraving Forum.com - The Internet's Largest and Fastest Growing Engraving Community or do your own search of how to clean copper plates [providing that's what you have]

Perhaps you could even try some thicker water soluble paint or ink which can be washed off with soap and water.

I do like the idea of a flat eraser in a rag with a little Brasso and going over the plate to reveal more detail either for photos or before making a print. (I read that in the thread that I posted)

I hope I helped at least a little... I don't want to tell you anything that may ruin your find you're so proud of :thumbsup:

Minrelica · Jan 4, 2013

Tnmountains said:
Here is one still on the block. I have a box of them somewhere. I like the idea of rolling some ink on it and printing it.

View attachment 721267

That's what they were made for... It won't hurt a thing and you'll have some fun doing it to boot.. In general, there's much more to a printing plate than you can see without actually making a print.. Go for it

skeeterd · Jan 4, 2013

I googled images "vintage 4-H dairy show" and came up with this.

Its not much help, but hopefully it will give someone else a lead.

Tnmountains · Jan 4, 2013

They appear to be copper on brass but there is no patina. May have a coating of some type. Another is like a photo etching with only the name engraved. It is a relative and I would guess from the 1920 era as my Dad was named for him. The name is engraved below the plate. It could have been a generic advertisement run for a week then discarded. Here is another type on wood.Just to give you an idea of what the looked like. Hope that is ok. Have enjoyed watching this.

cw0909 · Jan 8, 2013

WHADIFIND, not sure this is it, but it sure is close
Bigcypresshunter had posted this link in the wooden pliers thread
so i looked around and found this
Herford Cattle At Kansas City Show 1902 Picture

Breezie · Jan 8, 2013

cw0909 said:
WHADIFIND, not sure this is it, but it sure is close
Bigcypresshunter had posted this link in the wooden pliers thread
so i looked around and found this
Herford Cattle At Kansas City Show 1902 Picture

CW0909 Excellent photo find! Although it might not be the exact photo, it's certainly a definite 'first cousin.' I've downloaded the pic for you and enlarged it. Good work

Breezie

WHADIFIND · Jan 8, 2013

cw0909 said:
WHADIFIND, not sure this is it, but it sure is close
Bigcypresshunter had posted this link in the wooden pliers thread
so i looked around and found this
Herford Cattle At Kansas City Show 1902 Picture

Thank you for this update. We might never find the exact same ad or place where mine was used, but I think we all are in agreement that it's some sort of dairy, cattle, or 4H type club event.

Yours is exceptionally close!

Thanks again! For your help.

WHADIFIND · Jan 11, 2013

Another update - last?

Ok, life and time has gotten in the way of me completing this thread. What I have here is a very poor facsimile of what this plate would have printed. I know it's extremely rough but it is the best I can do at the moment. After all the help I received here on this one, I thought it would at least be fitting for everyone to see what the picture (MIGHT) have looked like at one time. Remember, this was buried for who knows how many years and it came from about 14 inches down! In ground that has not been filled!

The plate was anything but flat. :dontknow:

Thanks to all the experts, my hat is off to all of you!

And actually, my pictures are still wrong! They should be reversed/flipped horizontally. These have them in the same order as you'd see them looking at the plate. A printing would be flipped. (sorry, I suck as a printer and photographer!! :dontknow:

)