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Permits and other Legal things

Thanks Doc,
By the way this is not the place for this I know but did you know that some cannons had Platinum is them. It seems that Platinum was a waste metal in those days. I saw a photo of one the other day and it got me to thinking. I saw a COW PATTY of copper that weighted over 80 pounds and sure enough it tested Positive for Platinum. Since I am wanting to purchase this lump of copper I did not say a thing. :o
Peg Leg
 

I am sure that Pegleg means the legendary platinum cannons, which I am also sure have been discussed here in the past!

Smithbrown
 

Let me say thanks for the Lawyer info-no one responded-yet.

When platinum is mixed with other metals the melting point is reduced to what brass and tin will melt- most of the time anyway. When it was in high concentrations it was thrown away.
The copper that was shipped to spain in the PATTY state was as rough as it could be without refinning. Unlike gold that would settle on the bottom platinum would be mixed throughout the molten copper. But the longer it stayed in the molten copper the lower it would sink. Most of the time it would settle to about 2/3 down with the gold going to the bottom. The gold would then be cut away and refined from there. However sometimes there would be so much platinum that it appeared like silver nuggets.
My friend was wondering why he used to band saw blades when he cut a slab from his copper block. When I looked the platinum was very easy to see. According to what I saw I would suspect that out of this 74 pound bar there just may be a 1/2 pound of platinum or more. In order to get this platinum it will take a chemical consisting of Nitric acid and Hydrocloric acid-know as AQUA REGIA. Of course you could just desolve the copper with Nitric acid and then all that would be left is gold and platinum or what is called NOBLE METALS.
Sorry about the misspelled words - my spell check is not working.
Doc the Platinum cannon I was refering to is NOT a solid platinum cannon but is very very close because it has a silver tint to it is will not rust or corrode.
I will try and get a photo of this cannon and send it to you..

Now for the Lawyer question.
The reason for this question was I want to seek some Legal answers concerning a certain shipwreck. Now as I understand I do not need a permit to LOOK/EXPLORE as long as nothing is removed-is that correct?
But in order to file a claim I must get a ton of paper work filled out? This is why I am looking for an Attorney-JUST IN CASE.
Somewhere on this forum there was an address to the State of Florida that said what I needed but I cannot find it.
Anyone know where it may be.
Thanks
Peg Leg
 

You can start here Pegleg:

Florida Bureau of Archaeological Research
Phone: 245-6444 - Fax: 245-6452

Ryan Wheeler, Chief and State Archaeologist
rjwheeler@dos.state.fl.us

Roger Smith, Archaeology Supervisor
rsmith@dos.state.fl.us
Martin House

Please note: As of July 1, 2006, under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in writing.
 

Someone once told me that the Spanish used platinum sleeves in some of their cannons. When the sleeves wore down they'd just replace them. I have no idea where he got the info from, as I've never heard this before.
 

HIO ???what happened to my two posts, one discretely insulting my buddy DOC??

Pegger, on the legal aspects I am not your man sorry, but there are many here that are..

As for recovering your Pt from the Cu, hmm, it is far far more complicated than you apparently imagine.

In regards to assaying it, there are probably only handful of assayers competent to correctly do this in the US. A friend of mine lost his shirt this way. He relied upon two assayers for the Pt content of a dump that he bought for it's pt content.

The first practical vessel made out of Platinum was done by mechanically joining the pieces of placer Pt together by hammering them. - cold fusion process? ehhe.

The iron canon with Pt were made from iron ore in the new world, this is why they have the high pt content which incidentally actually weakend them.

I have Pt in the TAYOPA ores, in fact there was a minor rush in the old days at near by San Luis Barbarocos.

Tropical Tramp
 

Jeff KSomeone once told me that the Spanish used platinum sleeves in some of their cannons. When the sleeves wore down they'd just replace them. I have no idea where he got the info from, as I've never heard this before.
***********

Hi Jeff my friend: I sincerely doubt this since they did not have the technique for even extracting it, let alone the ability to make sleeves.

Agreed they had Pt placers, but they lacked both the hi-temp furnaces needed to smelt it nor did they have any idea as to it's properties, that came centuries later.

Also I fail to see any advantage of a Pt sleeve. Pt is relatively ductile and soft? An Iron ball would wreck a sleeve of this type in one or two shots.

Tropical Tramp
 

doc, the Pge group, especially Pt, is crudely known in assayer's circles as the HO"S of metal. It will go to bed with most of the known elements, notably with Fe. (appol. gals, shall I say "male "?)

There were/are fine Iron deposits being mined in Cuba and central America which did indeed contain Pt. The European Fe ores were relatively free of Pt.

And of course the Cu ores used to make Bronze contained quantities of Pt also.

Because of the scarecity of shipping space, it was quickly decided to exploit the American ore deposits, naturally the casting of the all important cannon was also commenced..

Tropical Tramp
 

RealdeTayopa,
You are 100% correct. Pt was and is a byproduct in some Iron ore deposits in different parts of the world.
I was not talking bout a cannon made from Pt. What I was saying is that some iron cannons do contain Pt.
The copper Patty that I saw and tested DID contain Platinum that was visable to the naked eye and as I said this 74 pound patty was shipped to Spain for its copper content. Mainly for coins and for making bronze. The copper was first used to make coins and the rest was used for making bronze cannons. Copper being lighter would float on the top of this material when in the molten state and the heavy minerails would sink to the bottom and platiunm would become suspended with everything else so when bronze was made platinum was included not by choice but there was no way to extract platinum and there was very little of it in the mix anyway.
By the way did you know that Platinum is used in Cataltic converters of your car and trucks
Just thinking out loud ::)

Thanks gdaddyflex for the information.
 

=diving doc[

Tell me about casting of cannon in the New World. I know that Cortes did it in Mexico, where else?
*******
Go to SCIRUS, or even good ole Google, and type in "casting iron cannon in the new world" and it's variations etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To the very best of my knowledge the percentages of platinum were so small that recovery from artifacts is not profitable, given the intrinsic value of the artifacts and the profit margin.

*******
No argument here , other than it actually weakend the bonds resulting in an inferior type of iron for cannon. They even resorted to wrapping many turns of fine wire around the cannon for increased strength. This same technique was used in WW-2 for increased strength on hi-pressure bottles for light weight in aircraft.

Tropical Tramp

Tropical Tramp

[/quote]
 

Peg Leg
By the way did you know that Platinum is used in Catalytic converters of your car and trucks
Just thinking out loud ::)
*********

Hi mi buddy Pegger: yes, there is quite a flourishing business recovering the PGE metals from them. It is also used as a Catalyst in Chemistry, and the food industry..

Tropical Tramp
 

Doc,
I agree that if you recover an artifact regardless of what per cent of platinum it contains best to leave it alone AS IS.
Peg Leg
 

=CaptainZossimaAs an Honorary Alchemist I must wonder what all the fuss about Platinum ?
8)
Cap Z.
*********
Hi bestest buddy, It makes a wonderful, long lasting set of conversational choppers. In your case, not effected by acidic wines - SALUD!.

Tropical Tramp
 

You mean that I would not need to put them in water every night ;D ;D ;D
Peg Leg
 

Tropical Tramp,
I have a question for you.
Lets say that you discovered a wreck within the State of Florida.
Lets also say it was the ship was Spanish.
But inside this ship there was Aztec and Mayan artifacts from Mexico.
I have been informed that since this was a Spanish ship that it belongs to Spain according to the treaty of 1902 and that the State of Floridan has no claim. Now to add a little more confusion to this it would also mean that since the artifacts were stolen from Mexico that Mexico is the rightfull owner of ALL the Aztec and Mayan Artifacts. Still Florida has NO claim at all no matter where the wreck is located.
As I understand it the Federal Government will take control of the wreck site until a deal can be worked out with the other Governments involved BUT it is possible for a private Salvage Company to make a deal with Mexico and Spain to recovery what belongs to them.
This would be a long Court battle don't you think between the countries involved
::)
Peg Leg
 

only a small percentage of Catalytic converters have platinum in them.unless you have well over 40,000lbs of the platinum pellets its not worth spending the money to have it processed.proccesors charge by the pound.its costly even if you can find a honest refinery.most will rip you off.
 

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