Pipe

[Hunter1805]

Guys, I am still doing a happy dance about the pipe I found while digging a hole. I was in a field and had a signal and dug down looking for the metal and out comes the rarest pipe ever found "So I am told", a contact period Soapstone Pipe with letters on it. It has early colonial European letters on it most likely Jesuit contact around 1550-1650. I understand that No other pipe ever found has letters on it. It has a cross on the back, the letters H and S. We are looking for signers of treaties signed around then to help ID who the pipe was made for or the owners of the pipe. I then looked at the cross on the back and said if it was not a cross and it was a letter such as the letter I then it would read "" I H S "" as on top of the cross "In His Service" Folks I need to know what else you can tell me about it. and the value of such an item. I believe it has potential to be worth many thousands. Its face is that of a snapping turtle. Any private e-mails would also be appreciated.

 

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[Hunter1805]

nice I guess

 

[vpnavy]

Wow - great find - someone should pipe in (get it!) shortly to help you ID it Hunter1805.

 

[Glenn C]

I think you are right about the pipe. Unfortunately during this time period there is not a lot of info. I have Jesuit ring which is done by hand as well which yours seems to be. I'd be very happy to come across something like that.

Big congrats!

 

[surf]

Hello Hunter,

Great find sir!

Am I seeing an "HSH" rather than an "ISH" in this side? Are you sure it's soapstone?

I wanna know what was the metal signal that caused you to dig. It would be nice to learn more of the backstory, or what other artifacts were found from this field. What are the "holes" or oval accents carved near the bottom? Please take more photos.

I understand that No other pipe ever found has letters on it.

71: 1862 GRATIOT PRISON CIVIL WAR CARVED SOAPSTONE PIPE : Lot 71

 

[Hunter1805]

The university called it Steatite or the same as soap stone easy to carve. The pipe was came out of a hole after getting a signal with the detector. A copper ring from a bucket was found in the hole. The depth 14 -16 inches. The pipe came rolling off my shovel while digging for the metal. It looked like coal. Maybe I should have said it is the only "INDIAN Effigy PIPE" ever found with letters on it. The letters HS and SH are carved twice and the cross or letter "I" once on the back. The holes, not sure what they are or why they are there. Unlike your pipe this one is 250-300 years older then the one you listed.

 

[surf]

Hello Hunter,

It's a wonderful find, and deserving of some more history and back story, in my opinion. What did the University say about it, other than it being steatite? Could it be an Indian / Jesuit collaboration? My thinking is that there could not have been too many Native people with Latin or Western language skills at this time.

I think this ought be your 2nd Banner...

 

[yakker]

That's a heck of a piece. And very curious. Please let us know what you find out about it. HH! Yak

 

[MarkDz]

Excellent find for sure. Thought you might be interested to know that there are two headstones in a cemetery in Forty Fort, PA, thought to be those of Native Americans, which have a nearly identical carved "S." You can see a picture here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cNDDk4eQFNE/TgO2xlC0w-I/AAAAAAAAAeM/IOvJmIqq1Lw/s1600/fortyfort01.jpg
If you ever find the meaning of that particular engraving it could help decipher what these grave markers are for as well. Mind if I ask (approximately) where you found this pipe?

 

[MarkDz]

BTW, if you haven't already, you might want to repost this on the American Indian boards... It'd get a much wider audience.

 

[unclemac]

those "H"s are funky and both "S"s have a sideways slant....maybe they are not so much "letters" or "initials" but perhaps "symbols" with a more complex meaning. in any case, do repost this in the native american forum.

 

[dasabighole]

Have you googled cherokee alphabet?

 

[GatorBoy]

I take it the metal target was deeper than the pipe.
Makes me curious about the age of that metal object..." a ring from a bucket".... at 14"-16".... and whether or not this area has been dug or otherwise disturbed before.
That's damm deep for a small copper signal... that must be some detector.

 

[Hunter1805]

I take it the metal target was deeper than the pipe.
Makes me curious about the age of that metal object..." a ring from a bucket".... at 14"-16".... and whether or not this area has been dug or otherwise disturbed before.
That's damm deep for a small copper signal... that must be some detector.

-- I see you are skeptical about the ability to find such an item with a detector. First off let me say I really don't care what you say here or what you think about the item or how it was discovered. Secondly, I have been at this detecting hobby since 1979 and been published in many books and magazines including many State papers for my finds and discoveries. I have three registered archeological sites that I have discovered and all naming me as the founders. I dig with a world renowned archeologist and have been given the opportunity to speak to college students about my finds and discovery. The university has asked and I have provided free access to my Indian artifacts for students completing their masters and PhDs in archeology. I have been to their dissertations and been given copies of their reports about my items used in their dissertations. Now just to shut you up, I am inclosing a picture of the bucket rim with the pipe. The question about what type of detector "E Trac" is what I use. If you don't think an E-Trac can’t find a copper ring 14-18 down you need to get out more. Now if you want to spread doubt about my finds then knock yourself out.

 

[GatorBoy]

Don't understand why all the attitude... but I can reciprocate.
I have a large deal of experience myself .. And someone with a history that you just described Should understand fully The importance of stratified context.
Finding items And reporting them.. That later leads to the naming of a site Requires no archaeological knowledge.
You're not shutting anyone up there buddy.
I've been metal detecting for a long time myself as well.. and yes that is very deep for a small copper target.
I'm not questioning the possibility of finding that while using a detector.. I've dug many Indian artifacts while digging colonial items myself... I am however questioning its age .. and the difference in patina from the letters as compared to the rest of the pipe.
and anyone's ability to give a proper age range to an item that is out of context.
Being published means absolutely nothing when it comes to being correct about something... anyone who has done any amount of research knows you have to filter through a bunch of printed garbage and incorrect information.
If you want to argue any of that... then I will question the credibility of your claims of Education.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[GatorBoy]

Found this 6,000 yo. Middle archaic period Putnam projectile point base while digging a 1837 Capped bust half dollar.
It was above the coin.












Context..context..context

 

[Fla Gal]

Very well put gator boy.

 

[Fla Gal]

What is that thing to the right of the copper ring? Is that really supposed to be a pipe?

 

[GatorBoy]

Yes its a carved steatite(soapstone) pipe.

 

[unclemac]

am i wrong or wasn't this resolved in another thread weeks ago? nice pipe by the way...and don't bother arguing with Gator, he is like a virgin on a prom date....won't give it up....