🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Question about a couple of "gravestones."

[creskol]

I have found two "gravestones" in the course of the cemetery restoration project that are made out of enameled tin. I have never seen that before and was wondering if anybody here is familiar with them and what the date range for them might be. The plaques that had the information on them are stainless steel, but all the info is long gone.

 

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[EKG]

Take off the screws and look what's behind if nothing written on the stone, in the archive from cemetery there must be the names and dates, or maybe it's a reservation and no one is buried there.

 

[Underwonder]

Those are interesting. I have not seen these either, but I only volunteer in historical cemeteries. I assume there is no information on "Find a Grave" in the graves listing of the burials there?

 

[uneedtlc2]

I have found two "gravestones" in the course of the cemetery restoration project that are made out of enameled tin. I have never seen that before and was wondering if anybody here is familiar with them and what the date range for them might be. The plaques that had the information on them are stainless steel, but all the info is long gone. View attachment 2090768

I do a good bit of work in historical cemeteries. I have seen a couple of these before, but they always had a small brass plate that would have the name and dates stamped in it.

 

[creskol]

Those are interesting. I have not seen these either, but I only volunteer in historical cemeteries. I assume there is no information on "Find a Grave" in the graves listing of the burials there?

Thanks. These are in the registered historic black cemetery I have been restoring for the past two + years. Many of the records for the cemetery burned up in the old church many years go.

 

[creskol]

Take off the screws and look what's behind if nothing written on the stone, in the archive from cemetery there must be the names and dates, or maybe it's a reservation and no one is buried there.

Nothing behind the plates.

 

[cudamark]

I doubt they're very old. Stainless steel has only been used for about 100 years. and common use a little over 80.

 

[villagenut]

I agree with EKG that they are headstones that have not yet got a tenant under them. They would get engraved once they were put to use by a family member, and perhaps bought and placed there but the family moved or haven't needed one yet

 

[uneedtlc2]

I do a good bit of work in historical cemeteries. I have seen a couple of these before, but they always had a small brass plate that would have the name and dates stamped in it.

I don't know why I didn't think about this before. At the cemetery where I am a Trustee, we have a couple hundred unmarked Graves. Our cemetery records back then were only recorded by the person who purchases the lot. Not the person actually there. I work with Search and Recovery K9s. When the cemetery gets a few extra dollars in the account, I bring the dig out and locate a couple of Graves for them. We don't have a name to go on the spot, but we are able to mark that spot with a little marker similar to this. That is why it doesn't have a name. It is an unknown.

 

[Underwonder]

I don't know why I didn't think about this before. At the cemetery where I am a Trustee, we have a couple hundred unmarked Graves. Our cemetery records back then were only recorded by the person who purchases the lot. Not the person actually there. I work with Search and Recovery K9s. When the cemetery gets a few extra dollars in the account, I bring the dig out and locate a couple of Graves for them. We don't have a name to go on the spot, but we are able to mark that spot with a little marker similar to this. That is why it doesn't have a name. It is an unknown.

That is an interesting thought. How does the dog locate burials and what is the oldest burial it can find that you know of? I imagine over time the scent would not be detectable?

 

[uneedtlc2]

That is an interesting thought. How does the dog locate burials and what is the oldest burial it can find that you know of? I imagine over time the scent would not be detectable?

The group I work with has all kinds of materials donated to us to work with. We use human training materials in different stages of decomposition. It could be a piece of bloody gauze from oral surgery or a rug that once had a body wrapped in it.

A dog can detect human remains from 3 minutes after death. If someone was killed on a rug and only laid there for 5 minutes, my dog can sniff that rug out even after the body has been moved. So, even when it appears the body is long gone, the sludge from decomposition will remain mixed into the soil.

That is an interesting thought. How does the dog locate burials and what is the oldest burial it can find that you know of? I imagine over time the scent would not be detectable?

I fell asleep while responding last night. Sorry.
CAUTION..THIS EXPLANATION MAY GET A LITTLE GRAPHIC.

The oldest grave 1 of my boys have found was late 1800-1900, but they are now using dogs to locate burial grounds in digs that are much older.

The group I train with uses only human training material. Anything from a bloody gauze from oral surgery to rugs that once had a body wrapped in it, to bones from a mummy. If a decomposing body (7 minutes after death)has touched something, my boys can detect it. Even after a body is long gone, that scent is in the soil where it once laid.

Sick story. While training, Bull kept hitting on a pile of dog bones. He isn't trained to detect anything but human remains. I ended up calling the local police. Thankfully, that cop trusted my dog's ability and collected all the bones and sent them off. In that pile of bones was a finger from a human. About 5 years prior, there was a man that had died of a heroine overdose about 300 yards away. They didn't find him till 10 days later. This dog had run off with that guy's decomposing hand and they speculate that he too died of a heroine overdose.



My dogs can't, but a couple in my group are learning to locate bodies under water now.

 

[Underwonder]

The group I work with has all kinds of materials donated to us to work with. We use human training materials in different stages of decomposition. It could be a piece of bloody gauze from oral surgery or a rug that once had a body wrapped in it.

A dog can detect human remains from 3 minutes after death. If someone was killed on a rug and only laid there for 5 minutes, my dog can sniff that rug out even after the body has been moved. So, even when it appears the body is long gone, the sludge from decomposition will remain mixed into the soil.

I fell asleep while responding last night. Sorry.
CAUTION..THIS EXPLANATION MAY GET A LITTLE GRAPHIC.

The oldest grave 1 of my boys have found was late 1800-1900, but they are now using dogs to locate burial grounds in digs that are much older.

The group I train with uses only human training material. Anything from a bloody gauze from oral surgery to rugs that once had a body wrapped in it, to bones from a mummy. If a decomposing body (7 minutes after death)has touched something, my boys can detect it. Even after a body is long gone, that scent is in the soil where it once laid.

Sick story. While training, Bull kept hitting on a pile of dog bones. He isn't trained to detect anything but human remains. I ended up calling the local police. Thankfully, that cop trusted my dog's ability and collected all the bones and sent them off. In that pile of bones was a finger from a human. About 5 years prior, there was a man that had died of a heroine overdose about 300 yards away. They didn't find him till 10 days later. This dog had run off with that guy's decomposing hand and they speculate that he too died of a heroine overdose.



My dogs can't, but a couple in my group are learning to locate bodies under water now.

That is fascinating work and I am impressed with the training and the dogs' specialized abilities! Thanks for sharing. I never thought dogs could find remains from hundreds of years ago!

 

[villagenut]

I would think that GPR would be the preferred method of locating lost buriels.

 

[Underwonder]

The group I work with has all kinds of materials donated to us to work with. We use human training materials in different stages of decomposition. It could be a piece of bloody gauze from oral surgery or a rug that once had a body wrapped in it.

A dog can detect human remains from 3 minutes after death. If someone was killed on a rug and only laid there for 5 minutes, my dog can sniff that rug out even after the body has been moved. So, even when it appears the body is long gone, the sludge from decomposition will remain mixed into the soil.

I fell asleep while responding last night. Sorry.
CAUTION..THIS EXPLANATION MAY GET A LITTLE GRAPHIC.

The oldest grave 1 of my boys have found was late 1800-1900, but they are now using dogs to locate burial grounds in digs that are much older.

The group I train with uses only human training material. Anything from a bloody gauze from oral surgery to rugs that once had a body wrapped in it, to bones from a mummy. If a decomposing body (7 minutes after death)has touched something, my boys can detect it. Even after a body is long gone, that scent is in the soil where it once laid.

Sick story. While training, Bull kept hitting on a pile of dog bones. He isn't trained to detect anything but human remains. I ended up calling the local police. Thankfully, that cop trusted my dog's ability and collected all the bones and sent them off. In that pile of bones was a finger from a human. About 5 years prior, there was a man that had died of a heroine overdose about 300 yards away. They didn't find him till 10 days later. This dog had run off with that guy's decomposing hand and they speculate that he too died of a heroine overdose.



My dogs can't, but a couple in my group are learning to locate bodies under water now.

Another query....How far away from multiple bodies from 1800s or older can they locate?

 

[Underwonder]

I would think that GPR would be the preferred method of locating lost buriels.

That is standard (and expensive)! I thought it was pretty interesting that canines had the ability to locate even many years after burial!

 

[uneedtlc2]

I would think that GPR would be the preferred method of locating lost buriels.

Usually, but to rent one (and the operator) for a weekend can get very expensive for a historic cemetery that operates off of donations alone. There is no reason for it when I have a dog who is trained to do the same thing. Also, a GPR only detects anomalies (air pockets, disturbances in the soil compaction, ect.). My cemetery sits on top of an old underground coal mine. There are anomalies all over the grounds.

 

[uneedtlc2]

Another query....How far away from multiple bodies from 1800s or older can they locate?

Meaning how deep?

 

[fyrffytr1]

What about using a probe to see if there are any caskets or voids in the ground. We use them to find old privys and trash pits. They make a very small hole in the ground.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

I wondeer if some type of acid could bring out any writing if there was any on the stainless steel?

 

[nagant]

Maybe they were temporary markers from the monument co. until they made the stone or until the person paid in full. Easy enough to change the SS plaque for the next err customer. The cemetery i worked at never had these. Only metal markers looked like the old white marble 4 ft high square tapered type and had a gray oxidized finish. Non magnetic and from around 1900 or so.