Ripping OFF?

[Darth Walker]

I have read many discussions here CRH saying about how dealers/pawn shops RIP off people by buying at low prices. I think that no one forces a seller to sell. If a dealer will buy from an individual at 2X face and the individual is willing to sell that is fine. We all CRH get silver for legal tender face from people that deposited the coins. I do get upset when I see in the news paper that companies pay very low prices for silver but well if they are lucky and get sellers that is fine. I just will not sell to them.

At the end of the day CRH profession exists due to the fact that people is not informed or educated when it comes to silver coins and American History.

Just my two cents

DW

 

[ArkieBassMan]

Interesting. What if I'm standing in line at the bank and the lady next to me is depositing $200 worth of silver dollars to her checking account. I see this and I happen to have $400 in mad money, so I tell her, "don't cash those in, I'll give you $400 for them." and her eyes light up and she says, "Okay!". That's a lowball offer for sure, but maybe all I wanted to afford at the moment. I'd be happy to get them for that price. She is obviously happy to sell them for that price. Did I rip her off?

I don't think so. She was willing to part with them for face value. You doubled what she was expecting to receive. I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I'll go one step further - you did her a favor. You put an extra $200 in her pocket.

This argument will never be resolved on this or any other forum because it all comes down to opinion. There is no "right" answer. No one will ever be able to convince me that you "cheated" the woman in this scenario. I will never be able to convince some other members on here that you didn't.

For those of you that disagree, allow me to throw out a scenario. I'll use the example in a recent similar thread of the coin shop owner offering to buy ASEs for $10 each. Several members referred to him as a "crook" for such a lowball offer (assume no ANA affiliation). What if the situation was reversed? You walk into that coin shop and he has 50 ASEs for sale for $10 each. Do you buy them? Or do you insist that he charges the $30+ each that these coins are worth? It has to work both ways. Any of you who thought the owner was a crook for only offering $10 in the first example would become the crook (and a hypocrite IMO) if you snatched up those 50 beautiful ASEs for such a ridiculously low price. For that matter, you would be unable to purchase anything ANYWHERE (coin shop, pawn shop, yard sale, flea market, thrift store, auction, estate sale, Dandy Don's used car lot, etc) for less than the item is actually worth.

 

[jim4silver]

Interesting. What if I'm standing in line at the bank and the lady next to me is depositing $200 worth of silver dollars to her checking account. I see this and I happen to have $400 in mad money, so I tell her, "don't cash those in, I'll give you $400 for them." and her eyes light up and she says, "Okay!". That's a lowball offer for sure, but maybe all I wanted to afford at the moment. I'd be happy to get them for that price. She is obviously happy to sell them for that price. Did I rip her off?

For those of you that disagree, allow me to throw out a scenario. I'll use the example in a recent similar thread of the coin shop owner offering to buy ASEs for $10 each. Several members referred to him as a "crook" for such a lowball offer (assume no ANA affiliation). What if the situation was reversed? You walk into that coin shop and he has 50 ASEs for sale for $10 each. Do you buy them? Or do you insist that he charges the $30+ each that these coins are worth? It has to work both ways. Any of you who thought the owner was a crook for only offering $10 in the first example would become the crook (and a hypocrite IMO) if you snatched up those 50 beautiful ASEs for such a ridiculously low price. For that matter, you would be unable to purchase anything ANYWHERE (coin shop, pawn shop, yard sale, flea market, thrift store, auction, estate sale, Dandy Don's used car lot, etc) for less than the item is actually worth.

Very good point Arkie.

Jim

 

[apush]

yes, history is highly intepretive. Just depends on who you ask--that will depend on the answer (or perception). No 2 men on the same battle field will have two slight different versions of the same story. So who do we believe?

In terms of ripping folks off, yes, I believe we should have an educated population. But I have no clue, for example on computers--even though I do research, I still need an "expert in the field" to inform me of what I should or should not purchase. This is new school, not old school. Folks in the past depended on others to have some degree of honesty. Many older folks were raised that way. So, those are the folks we need to protect; those who are not so modern savvy. It is easy for us to "get on line via the web" and find information. My 70 year old farmer father thinks computers are a scary thing--so he won't go there. Maybe other folks 70+ do, but he won't. That does not mean he is ignorant, just his way. He still believes that most folks are good and honest. I would speak out and protect older folks from getting ripped off. And that is the way it is for this "ol' gal."

apush

 

[cheese]

Interesting. What if I'm standing in line at the bank and the lady next to me is depositing $200 worth of silver dollars to her checking account. I see this and I happen to have $400 in mad money, so I tell her, "don't cash those in, I'll give you $400 for them." and her eyes light up and she says, "Okay!". That's a lowball offer for sure, but maybe all I wanted to afford at the moment. I'd be happy to get them for that price. She is obviously happy to sell them for that price. Did I rip her off?

If you offered her $400 for only $200 worth of silver, I would say that you were the one being ripped off.

So buying 200 silver dollars for $400 is not a great deal? Remember, she is depositing $200 of silver dollars into her CHECKING ACCOUNT...meaning there are 200 silver dollars... I'm sure you're aware that banks don't take silver dollars, weigh them, and deposit their silver value into your account. So, $200 worth of silver dollars at the bank means 200 silver dollars.

 

[JD-GA]

Im curious. For those who really think people advertising saying they pay the most are evil rip off artists......Have you ever had the worlds greatest hot dog or cup of coffee and come to find out its not really? But they did advertise saying its worlds greatest. Maybe to them it is the worlds greatest. Did you ask for your money back from being swindled into an average hot dog? Maybe the people offering "top dollar" really are offering the top dollar they can afford to offer lol.

The key is to be a smart "shopper." Never buy from the first place you see something and never sell to the first person who offers. Personally I feel like it is shameful to take advantage of already desperate people by offering such low money for their goods of value and the reason i havent jumped into the business head first. This is my hometown and community and I want to be helpful as much as i want to be a successful business owner. Something though i would not be able to do if i didnt live in a free america. Without lowballers and jerks it would be very difficult to set yourself apart.

Anyway my only competition in my town if i decide to open up is a much older gentleman who has no problem telling you to sell to him or get the @##% out of his store. He has been offering 14$ per 14k gram since gold was at $1300. Yes he "pays highest pay outs". And ya know what? He does pay the highest pay out, in that town at least for now.

 

[ivan salis]

-- res ipsa loquitor --caveat emptor / caveat venditor --

 

[ArkieBassMan]

yes, history is highly intepretive. Just depends on who you ask--that will depend on the answer (or perception). No 2 men on the same battle field will have two slight different versions of the same story. So who do we believe?

In terms of ripping folks off, yes, I believe we should have an educated population. But I have no clue, for example on computers--even though I do research, I still need an "expert in the field" to inform me of what I should or should not purchase. This is new school, not old school. Folks in the past depended on others to have some degree of honesty. Many older folks were raised that way. So, those are the folks we need to protect; those who are not so modern savvy. It is easy for us to "get on line via the web" and find information. My 70 year old farmer father thinks computers are a scary thing--so he won't go there. Maybe other folks 70+ do, but he won't. That does not mean he is --deleted--, just his way. He still believes that most folks are good and honest. I would speak out and protect older folks from getting ripped off. And that is the way it is for this "ol' gal."

apush

I understand, and somewhat agree. No one wants to see older folks get ripped off. I certainly do not. But who gets to decide the definition of "ripped off?" Currently 90% silver is worth a little over 22x face value. What is a "fair" offer? Who gets to decide and why? What if the most a small low-volume coin shop could pay and make enough money to stay afloat was 7-8x face value? Would they be cheating people? Are they "morally obligated" to pay closer to spot price to the extent of losing money?

Another thing...why would you speak out and only protect the elderly? Why would it not be the right thing to do for everyone? Why would a smart-aleck 20 year old not be entitled to the same protection? If an elderly pawn shop owner that obviously didn't keep up with spot prices was selling Walking Liberty halves for $4 each would you "protect" him? Or would you quietly buy them all as most of us would? Why is it OK to pick and choose when to do the "right" thing?

Please don't take this as a personal attack Mrs. Apush. I'm just using your post as an example as I just simply enjoy the discussion. I certainly don't have the answers, and in reality I'm much the same way. While I don't do it professionally, I will buy anything that I think I can make money on. In that regard, I want to buy as cheaply as possible and sell as high as possible. In the above example, I'm buying all the Walkers and I'm checking the store weekly to see if he has any more for sale. If that is "wrong", so be it. I disagree, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Maybe my profession has made me this way. I play poker for a living. I see weakness and I pounce on it. I'm definitely not a great player, but I seek out games that are mainly made up of weaker players than myself. Is that wrong? Am I taking advantage of them? I certainly did not force them to plop their money down. You cannot play "nice" and succeed in my profession. Case in point: I was playing poker (no-limit Texas Hold 'em) at a casino. Sitting next to me was a sweet little old lady that reminded me of my grandmother. About an hour or so into the game, she and I got "tangled" up in a hand. With one card to go, I make a Royal Flush. She bets into me. Normally in this situation, the correct play is to just simply call the bet in the hope that she will make a better hand on the last card (which still can't win), or at least bet again thinking she has the best hand. Instead, I raise BIG and honestly tell her that she should fold. When she looks at me uncertainly, I show her my hand. She thanks me, shows me that she had 3 of a kind, and folds. Not 15 minutes later, we tangle again. I flop a huge hand (3 Kings), bet bigger than I normally would and again tell her that she should fold. She calls. Next card comes and I do the same thing. She calls again. Last card comes and I tell her something like, "I'll be nice and not bet." and I don't. She bets everything she has and says, "I'd rather you win my money as anyone else at the table." So I call. The only hand that can beat me is 3 Aces, which is what she has.

Even after doing her a huge favor just minutes earlier, she did not reciprocate the favor. She did teach me a very important lesson though...poker is war. You can't "play favorites." In my opinion, life is much the same way. If everyone always did the "right" thing, this thing called life would be pretty simple (and boring IMO). But they don't, and its not. If you see a way to get ahead (like buying coins on the cheap for example), then you better take it. If you don't, someone else will...and will stab you in the back if necessary to do so. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

 

[jim4silver]

yes, history is highly intepretive. Just depends on who you ask--that will depend on the answer (or perception). No 2 men on the same battle field will have two slight different versions of the same story. So who do we believe?

In terms of ripping folks off, yes, I believe we should have an educated population. But I have no clue, for example on computers--even though I do research, I still need an "expert in the field" to inform me of what I should or should not purchase. This is new school, not old school. Folks in the past depended on others to have some degree of honesty. Many older folks were raised that way. So, those are the folks we need to protect; those who are not so modern savvy. It is easy for us to "get on line via the web" and find information. My 70 year old farmer father thinks computers are a scary thing--so he won't go there. Maybe other folks 70+ do, but he won't. That does not mean he is --deleted--, just his way. He still believes that most folks are good and honest. I would speak out and protect older folks from getting ripped off. And that is the way it is for this "ol' gal."

apush

I understand, and somewhat agree. No one wants to see older folks get ripped off. I certainly do not. But who gets to decide the definition of "ripped off?" Currently 90% silver is worth a little over 22x face value. What is a "fair" offer? Who gets to decide and why? What if the most a small low-volume coin shop could pay and make enough money to stay afloat was 7-8x face value? Would they be cheating people? Are they "morally obligated" to pay closer to spot price to the extent of losing money?

Another thing...why would you speak out and only protect the elderly? Why would it not be the right thing to do for everyone? Why would a smart-aleck 20 year old not be entitled to the same protection? If an elderly pawn shop owner that obviously didn't keep up with spot prices was selling Walking Liberty halves for $4 each would you "protect" him? Or would you quietly buy them all as most of us would? Why is it OK to pick and choose when to do the "right" thing?

Please don't take this as a personal attack Mrs. Apush. I'm just using your post as an example as I just simply enjoy the discussion. I certainly don't have the answers, and in reality I'm much the same way. While I don't do it professionally, I will buy anything that I think I can make money on. In that regard, I want to buy as cheaply as possible and sell as high as possible. In the above example, I'm buying all the Walkers and I'm checking the store weekly to see if he has any more for sale. If that is "wrong", so be it. I disagree, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Maybe my profession has made me this way. I play poker for a living. I see weakness and I pounce on it. I'm definitely not a great player, but I seek out games that are mainly made up of weaker players than myself. Is that wrong? Am I taking advantage of them? I certainly did not force them to plop their money down. You cannot play "nice" and succeed in my profession. Case in point: I was playing poker (no-limit Texas Hold 'em) at a casino. Sitting next to me was a sweet little old lady that reminded me of my grandmother. About an hour or so into the game, she and I got "tangled" up in a hand. With one card to go, I make a Royal Flush. She bets into me. Normally in this situation, the correct play is to just simply call the bet in the hope that she will make a better hand on the last card (which still can't win), or at least bet again thinking she has the best hand. Instead, I raise BIG and honestly tell her that she should fold. When she looks at me uncertainly, I show her my hand. She thanks me, shows me that she had 3 of a kind, and folds. Not 15 minutes later, we tangle again. I flop a huge hand (3 Kings), bet bigger than I normally would and again tell her that she should fold. She calls. Next card comes and I do the same thing. She calls again. Last card comes and I tell her something like, "I'll be nice and not bet." and I don't. She bets everything she has and says, "I'd rather you win my money as anyone else at the table." So I call. The only hand that can beat me is 3 Aces, which is what she has.

Even after doing her a huge favor just minutes earlier, she did not reciprocate the favor. She did teach me a very important lesson though...poker is war. You can't "play favorites." In my opinion, life is much the same way. If everyone always did the "right" thing, this thing called life would be pretty simple (and boring IMO). But they don't, and its not. If you see a way to get ahead (like buying coins on the cheap for example), then you better take it. If you don't, someone else will...and will stab you in the back if necessary to do so. Just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

Agree 100%!

Jim

 

[Cherryman68]

This is two funny. Here are two examples that happened to me in the last week.

Saw an ad on craigslist selling one ounce silver eagles for $15 (she called them walking liberties)

I bought them and didn't feel bad about it at all!

My boss brought me some silver quarters he found. The last set he sold to a coin shop for a lot below melt. I told him to bring any more to me and I would pay him more.

He brought 9.00 face. I offered him 145.00. He said "no way! That's way to MUCH!". I told him actual value was 189 but I could not pay that. He said "just give me $50-$75". I tried to argue with him and he just left and told me to get back to work. I paid him $100 and still feel like I took advantage of him. He just would not let me pay him more.

In truth I don't personally believe I ripped anyone off. I just got a good value. In one case I paid exactly what was asked. In the other I paid more.