Rising Sun Mint...Legit?

[wharghoul]

Nothing on this mint by Google search except for a logo...Nothing!?

Just bought several 1 oz. silver bars via craigslist and upon inspection they looked ok, but now that I'm striking out on the internet search I'm starting to worry.

How do I test to make sure it's .999 silver?

 

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[wharghoul]

Ok guys and gals, did more digging on the internet and boy am I an idiot. Looks like I bought silver plated bars. At this point, I don't know if the girl who sold them knew that they were not pure silver or if she knew they were plated and conned me out of $1,400. We'll see if she answers her phone tomorrow...

Think I'm going to be sick...

 

[jim4silver]

How do you know they are only plated? If they are stamped .999 fine silver one ounce, etc, most likely they are legit.

If they are not stamped with purity then you might be correct about being plated. Do they "ring" like silver coins? If only silver plated they will not have that "ring" to them.

I looked online after seeing your post and only saw .999 rising sun mint bars with buffaloes on them. If they are fake and the girl won't give you your money back, you could tell her you are going to the police and report a fraud if she told you they were .999 when you bought them and they turn out to be fake.

Good luck.

Jim

 

[wharghoul]

Jim,

I posted this topic to the metal detecting thread as well. There are a few other details that I left out on this thread. Short version of the story, it was a scam and she knew what she was selling. They are not "fakes", however, the bars are marked with "100 MILLS .999 Silver" and are quite deceptive. I have since learned what 100 MILLS means. I did the ring test and they sounded similar, did a magnet test and it passed. My holy crap moment of clarity actually came when I ran my F75 ltd coil over a pure bar and a plated bar. They were almost identical in thickness and dimension, but the pure bar had a VDI of 94 and the plated bar hit a 84. I'm not saying that this test confirms anything...just saying that I let my guard down and got taken advantage of.

 

[jim4silver]

Jim,

I posted this topic to the metal detecting thread as well. There are a few other details that I left out on this thread. Short version of the story, it was a scam and she knew what she was selling. They are not "fakes", however, the bars are marked with "100 MILLS .999 Silver" and are quite deceptive. I have since learned what 100 MILLS means. I did the ring test and they sounded similar, did a magnet test and it passed. My holy crap moment of clarity actually came when I ran my F75 ltd coil over a pure bar and a plated bar. They were almost identical in thickness and dimension, but the pure bar had a VDI of 94 and the plated bar hit a 84. I'm not saying that this test confirms anything...just saying that I let my guard down and got taken advantage of.

That's bad WG. I have heard of the 100 mills thing before.

Hope you can get your $$$ back somehow.

Jim

 

[brendan1414]

Unless the listing did not specify they were 100 mills, then you overpaid for some plated junk. these things LITTER ebay, and are a serious issue for newcomers to bullion buying.

 

[Marchas45]

Man I feel for you wharghoul I got stung also but only for $320.00 when I first started buying silver. I learned my lesson fast as I STAY AWAY FROM CHINESE SILVER as there are tons of fakes out there and look so good. Someone else on the forum got stung by a member here on the forum with that CHINESE JUNK. I never got my money back but I sure as heck hope you do. Good Luck, Charlie

P.S. if it's not marked .999 don't buy it period.

 

[wharghoul]

To further clarify...the listing said "1 oz. bars pure silver"

The bars were stamped ".999 fine silver" and then underneath "100 Mills"

No, I won't be getting my money back. The seller used a prepaid phone that is now out of service.

So, Marchas45, my $1,400 lesson learned here is that .999 stamped on a bar means nothing. In the future I'll only buy from a recognizable mint and only from a recognizable source that I can research BEFORE the purchase.

Thank you guys for showing a little bit of empathy.

 

[RJGMC]

So sorry to hear about your misfortune. There are people that work just as hard to cheat you out of your money as you worked to earn it.

Now is the time to go file a report with the police department. Craigslist does have a record of where/what ip address was used to create this ad intending to defraud someone. I would make sure and send what ever to craigslist also. The same people are still around just waiting for their next victim.

Please file a report and see what can be done. You probably won't see your money again, but you never know.

Good luck, we are all a little more educated now.

Bob

 

[jim4silver]

So sorry to hear about your misfortune. There are people that work just as hard to cheat you out of your money as you worked to earn it.

Now is the time to go file a report with the police department. Craigslist does have a record of where/what ip address was used to create this ad intending to defraud someone. I would make sure and send what ever to craigslist also. The same people are still around just waiting for their next victim.

Please file a report and see what can be done. You probably won't see your money again, but you never know.

Good luck, we are all a little more educated now.

Bob

If the bars were stamped with 100 mills on them, it may be difficult to prove fraud. Even though the seller might have said she had "silver bars" to sell, the fact that the bars are stamped correctly could be a defense to fraud. Even though it seems clear that there was an intent to mislead the OP, it would depend on the wording in the Craigslist advertisement and what could be proven as to what she told the OP.

Couldn't hurt to report it though. The seller is probably doing this like crazy since silver is in high demand right now. From what I read online after seeing this post there is alot of 100 mills silver floating around out there so lookout everyone.

I have never seen such a bar but I only buy from coin stores who hopefully would not sell such bars. I did though once spot a counterfeit 1/2 sovereign at a coin store.

Jim

 

[heat45]

I signed up with treasurenet just to touch on this subject. The Rising Sun Mint, which has since changed their name to Rising Star Mint (gee, I wonder why), sells the same prodcusts as CMC Mint for way over double the price. They do sell solid 999 gold (1 grain at a time for $278USD per GRAM!...15.43 grains to a gram, 31.1034768 grams to a troy ounce/oz), but most of their products are fake copies or lead/brass with 100 mills. (a layer thinner than a hair) plating. It's funny, their site says prices are subject to change, due to the volatility of the precious metals market; meanwhile, gold has never reached the $278 per gram that they're currently and historically have been charging. If you buy a troy ounce of solid silver from them in the form of twenty 1/20oz Marijuana (wanna be Canadian Maple) rounds, you'll pay a crazy $160USD per oz. You can invest in Nazi 5 Reichsmarks for $61 per pure oz (mind you they're 90%, but the history and credibility far exceed any Chinese coin/round). RSM also claims that they manufacture ALL of their products, never use drop shipping and that it's the reason their prices are apparently 10-40% below retail. I know for a fact that CMC Mint makes those 1/20oz rounds in New Jersey and Alberta, Canada. I also know that their RSM deceptive 100 mills. bars are made in China. CMC and RSM's Chinese supplier sell the dies for them to strike their own, so that's even more reason to be cautious (you or I can order these dies from CMC online). Even RSM's real bullion products are sub-par. Their solid silver maple copy 1/10 & 1/20 rounds say 9999 fine silver 1/10oz OR PUR (The Royal Canadian Mint's mark for pure gold, The Royal Canadian Mint uses ARGENT PUR for pure silver). The one coin that RSM got semi right in copying, a 1 gram solid silver wanna be Maple round, is correctly marked ARGENT PUR, but reads Canadian instead of Canada at the top and the obverse is a never seen before sloppy map of Canada. I e-mailed RSM (rsmint@yahoo.com) last night and John's response was beyond rude. He insulted my intelligence, while making elementary grammatical errors, saying I don't know anything. He also put down CMC, saying, "Yeah, well they'll charge you $20 shipping and I ship free". (Only for the cont. 48 U.S. states). I guess he can afford to ship to continental America for free when he's ripping off new comers to the bullion trade left, right and center. They even have warnings on their site about lead poisoning and cancer (only thanks to California's bill of disclosure). Seeing all of their non gold and non silver 100% fake copies of Olympic Canadian 1 oz gold coins, fake gold Liberties, Buffalos, Morgans, etc. makes me think that their Chinese supplier is affiliated with or THE bootlegger responsible for all those fake silver Eagle Walking Liberties marked as real that somehow still get tossed about. Not to mention the 1 oz gold Maples marked to be identical to the real thing that caused that string of counterfeit sales and pistol stick ups a few years back. Don't get burned; If you must order online, use the BIG 3 suppliers. You're better off going to your local jeweler/metals dealer and securing your bullion in person instantly. You avoid shipping charges, you can always talk down prices in person and there's no room for error. Say there's another blackout or some sort of crisis and that's all it takes for you to not receive that 100 oz gold bar you've already paid for. Stay safe out there. If you're new to the game, buy a heavy duty safe, drill some holes in it and bolt it to your floor and wall before buying a single bar or coin. Thanks for hearing me out. Keep stackin'!!!

 

[heat45]

One more thing that I forgot to mention. You asked how to tell the real from the fake. You can by GTS or JSP acid based testing solutions for silver, platinum and gold in 10k, 14k, 18k, 22k and sometimes 24k. As most good fakes are more heavily plated, many people file an eighth of an inch into large bars and then scrape them on the scratch stone for the acid tests. The Chinese government actually drilled four holes into several of the tungsten cored bars they received, apparently, from the U.S. (no comment; I value my life LOL). I wonder why China would think of tungsten filled 400oz bullion bars. The most common illegal fake gold bullion I've seen and heard about are the 50 gram Pamp Suisse bars that are the right size, but only 32 grams and the infamous fake British Sovereigns (both containing no real gold, which a $3 bottle of test acid could spot). If it's fake, it'll disolve and you'll see the gold flakes rise to the top of the drop of acid. If it's real, it sits under the drop of acid as if nothing ever happened. Silver tester is different, which relies on shades of the acid's reaction.

 

[rsmint]

Is Rising Sun Mint Legit ?
The Truth is No it is not a mint its just a brand of products, Some of the products are real solid silver and some of the products are solid silver with gold plating and some of the products are just copper bars/coins plated with silver or gold . Rising sun mint is produced by CMC mint which has no part of the Rising Star Mint, Inc. of U.S.A
You can find some of the CMC mint products with both the CMC logo on the back as well as the Rising sun mint logo which the CMC mint has been changing most of their products to contain the CMC mint logo now and doing away with the rising sun mint brand NOT CHANGING THE name to Rising Star Mint, Inc.

Rising Star Mint, Inc. stocks and sells only the CMC mint and Rising sun mint products that are .999 pure solid silver or the 24k gold over pure .999 solid fine silver products from The CMC mint.
NO GOLD OR SILVER PLATED COPPER BARS!!!!!!!!!!from the CMC mint or Rising sun mint.

Rising Star Mint produces All Rising Star Mint Products Right Here in the U.S.A and Only produces .999 solid Silver products all of which go through what we call a true minted coin process and can only be purchased through the Rising Star Mint of U.S.A.

A true minted coin is cut out of a sheet of pure .999 solid silver then polished to a mirror finish then struck by a die. the same way the U.S mint produces Their Solid Silver Coins, The difference really stands out side by side compared to other processes that are less costly that Mold the coin instead of striking it with a Die. And any silver piece 1 gram or smaller cannot be produced by being struck with a die they must be molded.

100mills = 100 millimeters gold/silver plating not solid gold or solid silver usually over a solid copper bar and Rising Star Mint, Inc. (DOES NOT Produce, handle or sell these period.)

.999 fine silver= Solid/pure silver

.925 sterling silver=is mostly silver mixed with just a small amount of copper (.075) to make it stronger for jewelery

24k gold is pure gold anything less than 24k is mixed with other elements such as nickel, silver & copper

Thank You Very Much for reading this if anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me at rsmint@yahoo.com with your questions I will try to reply as soon as I can The Rising Star Mint, Inc. Copy Right 2010-2013

www.RisingStarMint.com

 

[rsmint]

Nothing on this mint by Google search except for a logo...Nothing!?

Just bought several 1 oz. silver bars via craigslist and upon inspection they looked ok, but now that I'm striking out on the internet search I'm starting to worry.

How do I test to make sure it's .999 silver?

Your Answer is called a Acid purity test Rising Star Mint, Inc.

 

[rsmint]

I signed up with treasurenet just to touch on this subject. The Rising Sun Mint, which has since changed their name to Rising Star Mint (gee, I wonder why), sells the same prodcusts as CMC Mint for way over double the price. They do sell solid 999 gold (1 grain at a time for $278USD per GRAM!...15.43 grains to a gram, 31.1034768 grams to a troy ounce/oz), but most of their products are fake copies or lead/brass with 100 mills. (a layer thinner than a hair) plating. It's funny, their site says prices are subject to change, due to the volatility of the precious metals market; meanwhile, gold has never reached the $278 per gram that they're currently and historically have been charging. If you buy a troy ounce of solid silver from them in the form of twenty 1/20oz Marijuana (wanna be Canadian Maple) rounds, you'll pay a crazy $160USD per oz. You can invest in Nazi 5 Reichsmarks for $61 per pure oz (mind you they're 90%, but the history and credibility far exceed any Chinese coin/round). RSM also claims that they manufacture ALL of their products, never use drop shipping and that it's the reason their prices are apparently 10-40% below retail. I know for a fact that CMC Mint makes those 1/20oz rounds in New Jersey and Alberta, Canada. I also know that their RSM deceptive 100 mills. bars are made in China. CMC and RSM's Chinese supplier sell the dies for them to strike their own, so that's even more reason to be cautious (you or I can order these dies from CMC online). Even RSM's real bullion products are sub-par. Their solid silver maple copy 1/10 & 1/20 rounds say 9999 fine silver 1/10oz OR PUR (The Royal Canadian Mint's mark for pure gold, The Royal Canadian Mint uses ARGENT PUR for pure silver). The one coin that RSM got semi right in copying, a 1 gram solid silver wanna be Maple round, is correctly marked ARGENT PUR, but reads Canadian instead of Canada at the top and the obverse is a never seen before sloppy map of Canada. I e-mailed RSM (rsmint@yahoo.com) last night and John's response was beyond rude. He insulted my intelligence, while making elementary grammatical errors, saying I don't know anything. He also put down CMC, saying, "Yeah, well they'll charge you $20 shipping and I ship free". (Only for the cont. 48 U.S. states). I guess he can afford to ship to continental America for free when he's ripping off new comers to the bullion trade left, right and center. They even have warnings on their site about lead poisoning and cancer (only thanks to California's bill of disclosure). Seeing all of their non gold and non silver 100% fake copies of Olympic Canadian 1 oz gold coins, fake gold Liberties, Buffalos, Morgans, etc. makes me think that their Chinese supplier is affiliated with or THE bootlegger responsible for all those fake silver Eagle Walking Liberties marked as real that somehow still get tossed about. Not to mention the 1 oz gold Maples marked to be identical to the real thing that caused that string of counterfeit sales and pistol stick ups a few years back. Don't get burned; If you must order online, use the BIG 3 suppliers. You're better off going to your local jeweler/metals dealer and securing your bullion in person instantly. You avoid shipping charges, you can always talk down prices in person and there's no room for error. Say there's another blackout or some sort of crisis and that's all it takes for you to not receive that 100 oz gold bar you've already paid for. Stay safe out there. If you're new to the game, buy a heavy duty safe, drill some holes in it and bolt it to your floor and wall before buying a single bar or coin. Thanks for hearing me out. Keep stackin'!!!

not much of what he said is true and rising sun mint isn't changing their name to Rising Star Mint, Inc. Rising SUN MINT belongs to CMC Mint LLC a canadian based company and Rising Star Mint, Inc. is a Milwaukee Wisconsin U.S.A Based Company that produces their own products with the same method as the U.S Mint uses and stocks/sells other company's products and all prices are adjusted according to the market cost of silver+cost of labor+cost of shipping and set up for individual sale of collectors pieces not for bulk or investment sales and sells only 100% pure .999 silver products and as with any piece of silver bullion or jewelry or even a share of stock the cost of labor, shipping, broker fees and expences are in the price which makes it more the stock market value I guess you would Have to produce silver products to know this. any questions feel free to contact me at rsmint@yahoo.com with your questions and I will get back to you as soon as I can Thank you Rising Star Mint, Inc.

 

[mts]

rsmint: You aren't helping your cause. The more you post the more these results/comments will show up in the search results of people looking to see if you are a reputable company. If I were you, I'd delete all of my posts on the subject and mark it up to experience.

The bottom line is that you state you don't have any plated products. You then go on to show a picture with gold plated products that are meant to make people think they are getting solid gold. Instead, they are getting gold plated silver. Also, you can't tell me that there is anything legit about "1 grain platinum bars". 1 grain is 2/1000ths of a troy ounce. It wouldn't be possible to make that in a solid form. So this is either a misprint or deceptive advertising.

It's also no coincidence that all of your products are of the "small variety" with high markups. You don't appear to sell anything even remotely close to 1 troy ounce. It is very clear that you are hoping to cash in on people's misconceptions about how big a gram is versus a troy ounce.

We aren't fooled. I would never order anything from your company. And if I were a company that was aware of the tricks CMC is trying to pull, I wouldn't advertise that I was associated with them in any way. You are only hurting yourself by doing so. Whether or not you sell the "fake" CMC products is irrelevant. You are doing business with a company that is responsible for making products that are purposely deceptive and you are aware of it. Do what you want. But that alone speaks volumes about what type of person you are.

 

[rsmint]

quote author=mts link=topic=412158.msg3184709#msg3184709 date=1327519192]
rsmint: You aren't helping your cause. The more you post the more these results/comments will show up in the search results of people looking to see if you are a reputable company. If I were you, I'd delete all of my posts on the subject and mark it up to experience.

The bottom line is that you state you don't have any plated products. You then go on to show a picture with gold plated products that are meant to make people think they are getting solid gold. Instead, they are getting gold plated silver. Also, you can't tell me that there is anything legit about "1 grain platinum bars". 1 grain is 2/1000ths of a troy ounce. It wouldn't be possible to make that in a solid form. So this is either a misprint or deceptive advertising.

It's also no coincidence that all of your products are of the "small variety" with high markups. You don't appear to sell anything even remotely close to 1 troy ounce. It is very clear that you are hoping to cash in on people's misconceptions about how big a gram is versus a troy ounce.

We aren't fooled. I would never order anything from your company. And if I were a company that was aware of the tricks CMC is trying to pull, I wouldn't advertise that I was associated with them in any way. You are only hurting yourself by doing so. Whether or not you sell the "fake" CMC products is irrelevant. You are doing business with a company that is responsible for making products that are purposely deceptive and you are aware of it. Do what you want. But that alone speaks volumes about what type of person you are.
[/quote] CMC mint sells the small real 1 gram silver items at the lowest cost to the dealers which allows us to sell/ship at the lowest cost online is why we sell cmc 1 gram silver pieces and 1 gram gold plated silver products and some of the other ones that would cost us more to produce than we can buy them for in bulk we never stated we didnt sell gold plated products we sell only gold plated solid .999 silver and all of these items are listed as such no deceptive advertising, and Our products we produce right here in the U.S and we take no part in selling gold and silver products that are plated copper bars such as CMC mint or other dealers/producers ,and we sell PALLADIUM not PLATINUM they use pure palladium in coumpters everday just like any other metal element it can be heated and molded.

 

[mts]

You are right. I apologize. They are listed as 1 grain solid palladium. But 1 grain would have to be tiny. So please explain exactly what these bars are supposed to be. Because as it stands, they are being sold such that buyers probably believe they are getting 1 gram of solid palladium which would be worth about $22. You don't list sizes or give anything in the picture to show a size comparison. So I can only imagine what buyers must think about their purchase after they get a tiny bar that is probably no bigger than a match head. 1 grain of palladium would be a bar that is about 5 cubic mm. I suppose they also pound it very flat to make it look bigger in the picture. But it is still a trivial amount of metal that is fabricated and photographed to look much bigger than it is.

1 gram solid palladium is worth about $22.
1 grain solid palladium is worth about $1.38
You are selling them for $8.99.

You don't give any indication that they are absolutely tiny. To me, this is deceptive advertising. Although there is nothing legally wrong with your listings, they definitely are very suspect. You clearly know that you are selling very high markup items and are hoping that your customers don't look too closely. All of the items you sell are based on small size/high markup or high premiums for trivial amounts of plating. That's all I need to know about what kind of business you run. Hiding behind fine print is no way to run a reputable business.

By the way, if you are going to quote people, make sure you do it correctly. Use the preview button to check the format of your posts before actually posting them.

 

[mts]

Also, NONE of the products you sell are availabe on APMEX, Provident Metals, or any other reputable site. They won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Yet you make a business selling only products that reputable dealers won't touch. Makes you wonder huh?

 

[rsmint]

Also, NONE of the products you sell are availabe on APMEX, Provident Metals, or any other reputable site. They won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. Yet you make a business selling only products that reputable dealers won't touch. Makes you wonder huh?

Rising Star Mint, Inc. does not produce any product under 1/10th of a troy ounce, we sell products under a 1/10th of a troy ounce produced by other manufactures. The products we produce, stock and sell are for collectors of fractional pieces not for silver investors As far as format?? not sure what your talking about and I really dont have the time for this,I just saw this listed under google and I thought who ever reads this should know the truth about whats being said about rising sun mint, CMC mint and Rising Star Mint straight from the CEO of Rising Star Mint, Inc.